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Featured Most Difficult Concept

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So God loves satan?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I do not see how God can allow full free will and still be fully Sovereign though!
     
  3. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anywhere in the Bible where he gave you, nice as you are, the job of determining just exactly what he can and cannot do to remain sovereign.

    I do see however and I hope you do also see where He states that if we place our faith and trust in Christ and Him crucified we will be forgiven and accepted and thus saved.
     
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ..to love OUR enemies, NOT God's enemies:

    21 Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
    22 I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies.
    Ps 139

    6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you. Mt 7
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not know. I suppose, as Scripture uses "love", this can be said to be true (God created Satan). And, as you pointed out, God is eternal - not subject to time.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Why not? (I do not see how these are competing ideas....especially given the account of Paul's shipwreck).
     
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  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Begotten of God/born of God/born from above/born of the Spirit, I'm not convinced it's the same as 'indwelling', but no doubt the source for this agape is the regenerate heart, and it comes NATURALLY:

    14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
    15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

    So naturally does this agape come to the heavenly born that they may not even be aware of acting on it:

    37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
    38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
    39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mt 25

    It's as if they weren't even conscious of doing anything out of the ordinary, like doing these things came to them 'naturally', from the heart, like Paul articulated, "when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law...they show the work of the law written in their hearts"

    Like the Samaritan:

    33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion, Lu 10

    Agape comes naturally to the heavenly born.
     
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    The origination of sin in the heart of Lucifer.
     
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  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Loving enemies means setting your love on those you hate. If you love them subjectively, they are no longer enemies. God set His love on us when we had nothing to love but only to hate.
     
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I think you are missing the point of Matthew 5.
    Just like the man challenging the command to “love your neighbor”, by asking “who is my neighbor?” You are saying “who is MY enemy?”

    Prior to salvation, scriptures says we were all the enemies of God.

    The command to “love” your enemies loses all significance with such thinking.

    peace to you
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No. At it's core the Sermon On The Mount is an exposition of the law given by the Author of the law, addressed to the recipients of the law, showing the spirituality of the law:

    20 For I say unto you...
    21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time....
    22 but I say unto you...
    27 Ye have heard that it was said...
    28 but I say unto you
    31 It was said also...
    32 but I say unto you...
    33 Again, ye have heard that it was said to them of old time...
    34 but I say unto you...
    38 Ye have heard that it was said...
    39 but I say unto you...
    43 Ye have heard that it was said...
    44 but I say unto you... Mt 5

    No. I seek only to 'rightly divide'. But that is a good question:

    6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine, lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you. Mt 7

    Who are the dogs? Who are the swine?

    And who PROVED to be neighbor?
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Good point. It should also be noted that 'us enemies'' names were written in heaven long before 'salvation '. Paul was a fearsome enemy all the while being separated from his mother's womb to preach to the Gentiles.

    So many there are like you @canadyjd that consider 'such thinking' as 'rightly dividing' to be somehow 'taboo'.
     
    #33 kyredneck, Oct 1, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    K. Anytime.
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    We disagree that “rightly dividing’” what Jesus meant by “love your enemies” is to determine who is “my” enemy and who is God’s enemy or someone else’s enemy.

    As Christian, all of God’s enemies should be our enemies

    peace to you
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes. No doubt we disagree. In no way do I believe He intended for us to allow ourselves to be run over by His or our enemies.
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Because He wants people to love Him by their free will; He does not want robots, which He could've easily created.
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    An example could be the Japanese after WW2. My parents hated them after the PH snrak attack, but when they surrendered & cooperated, their hate died away quickly, they said, & they welcomed a few Japanese immigrants who'd moved into the 'hood at the time.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    TO ANSWER THE OP...

    The hardest concept for me to grasp is God's omniscience & omnipresence, able to hear millions of prayers at once, & being everywhere at once, from here on earth to the farthest reaches of the universe, at the same time.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sinners in their own free will cannot receive Jesus as Lord, as will always reject Him to save them !
     
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