most recommended book ,Catholic and Protestant

Psalm 104_33,

I'm glad you said that, I was beginning to think it was just an Irish problem.

I agree completely. They're probably Jesuits. (only joking Carson)

I've heard his testimony on tape. He has a wonderful story to tell, particularly about how the Lord providentially dealt with his family at the same time as he was searching for the truth

God Bless

Enda

 

Hey, my life is an open book (sorta!). I write real-time embedded software for a living. I'm just making up for 30+ years of being out of the Church and away from God.

 

I haven't read the book you are talking about, Carson, but Hahn's Rome Sweet Home is pretty much personal testimony with little doctrine actually addressed. That was the main reason I was not overly impressed with that book. But I know this is not a book that you put forward for a Protestant to read to convert them.

Neal

 

"These are a very small percentage of Roman Catholics as any Baptist will tell you who has done any door to door evangelism. To listen to them you would think that they were the rule rather than the exception"

I have to tell you my experience with the majority of Protestants is the same. The ones on the message boards are not typical at all.

 

The Cross and the Switchblade by David Wilkerson.

 

"I find it incredible that these men, having studied many years in various seminaries seem to know nothing about Scripture. And these are the 'guardians' of the catholic souls."

"If you feel that they were poorly taught you have to ask yourself why."

Well edna it happened in old testament times also so do we have to ask ourselves why and throw out the Old Testament because of it?

Ezekiel 3:18
"When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

God will be the judge of those who do not speak his truth.

Actually your 50 priests and their stories say alot. They were not rooted in the word of God. Would you agree that someone who does not know their bible is vulnerable to error? Vulnerable to being "blown about by every wind of doctrine" (Funny Martin Luther quoted this in decrying the division that occured after his beloved reformation). You know what, the Catholic Church would agree that a man who does not know scripture is open to error. St. Jerome in the 4th century said "ignorance of scripture is ignorance of God". Now I can find 50 Protestant pastors (last I heard, the coming home network by Marcus Grodi was working with 200) that knew their bibles and when they started understanding Catholicism, came over to it.

Steve Ray, Scott Hahn, Ken Hensley, Marcus Grodi, Steve Wood, and many more. In hearing these guys speak, they knew their Bible. So I think your example of a bunch of ex-catholic priests who didn't know there Bible (the bottom of the barrell of priests) is rather pale in comparison to the ones who came to Catholicism, knowing their Bible. Don't you. Probably would have made no difference if it was a oneness pentecostal or a Morman or a JW who came to the door of those 50 priests. It is called personal responsibility. Soul Responsibility is a term Ron suggested to me the other day. I like it! If CAtholicism is what it claims to be, the very fact that these priests didn't know there bible is quite telling of whether they understood/understand Catholicism.

Blessings

[ June 13, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]

 

Hi enda,

I'm sure you are not suggesting that these 50 ex-priests are deliberately misrepresenting the catholic faith.

My pointing out that the book contains much error concerning the Catholic faith does not touch upon intentionality.

Doesn't it worry you that these priests appear to have had little or no knowledge of the Bible before their conversions.

Not so much worry as explanation. It explains much of why they left the Catholic Church. I probably would, too, if I didn't know the Bible (and at one point, I was on the verge of doing so, Biblically illiterate).

I just hope you will read the book again

Why should I read a book (which I have already read) laden with misunderstandings concerning the Catholic Faith? That would seem a little counterproductive, considering all of the titles remaining on my summer reading list.

 

Hi Neal,

I haven't read the book you are talking about, Carson, but Hahn's Rome Sweet Home is pretty much personal testimony with little doctrine actually addressed.

I would have to disagree with you that Rome Sweet Home addresses little doctrine. I just ran upstairs, grabbed my copy, and flipped through two chapters and came up with this list in about 2 minutes:

Contraception in pp. 33-40
Sola Fide in pp. 41-42
Liturgy in pp. 43-45
The Eucharist in pp. 49-50
Sola Scriptura in pp. 51-54

Granted, the entire book is not a treatise on doctrine, but it is doctrinally rooted. Hahn's testimony is doctrinally centered, and his testimony concerns itself with doctrine almost exclusively. If you're interested in the details and specifics of these doctrinal issues, Hahn has an extensive array of books and tapes that deal with the issues in detail; this is not the purpose of Rome Sweet Home, which surveys the fundamental doctrinal issues in the Hahn's life setting.

As a seminary student, you're hungry for the nitty and gritty, the detail. To satisfy this hunger, I suggest reading Hahn's theological work, starting with A Father Who Keeps His Promises, which is one of my favorite reads on salvation history. I also suggest Romanism in Romans, an excellent tape set he did circa 1990. Since then, he's put out Romans 9-11, which is an update on his study of these three crucial chapters of Paul's Epistle to the Romans. For Biblical commentary, I suggest the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (by Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch - http://www.salvationhistory.com/About/curtismitch.cfm), which is currently being published separately by Gospel or epistle - these are found online or in any Catholic bookstore. When the entire Bible is completed, it will be published in one or two complete volumes.

[ June 13, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

 

That was all my point was, Carson. Like you said, I like nitty gritty.

Neal

 

"Prodigal Protestant" and "Who are the Beast?"


Don't get offended now. I am just funnin ya.
They haven't been written yet and probably won't be but they could be written and would be just as damaging to Protestantism as the distortions such as Dave Hunt's book mentioned above. John 6:66 would be a key verse in "Who are the Beast" if it were to be written. It seems to me however that Catholics don't feel the need to trash someone elses faith in a vile mannner. Much more confidence in asserting the positive truths of the faith rather than the negatives of the opposing sides errors. That after all seems to be Paul's method throughout his writings. Speak the truth about what Christ taught (rather than the errors of everyone elses teaching) and let the chips fall where they may.

Blessings

PS. "A House Built on Sand" might be a good one also. If it were to be written, that is.

[ June 13, 2003, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]

 

Might not do the trick. James' sister recently converted to Catholicism (No Lord, not there!). Before she did, she read all of James' works looking for the solid refutation she desperately wanted to find. She didn't find it, and is now an excited and committed Catholic, as are her family.

 

Might not do the trick. James' sister recently converted to Catholicism (No Lord, not there!). Before she did, she read all of James' works looking for the solid refutation she desperately wanted to find. She didn't find it, and is now an excited and committed Catholic, as are her family. </font>[/QUOTE]Patty sometimes pops up on a Catholic forum I am on and from what little I saw, her brother did not act in a very charitable manner. One can't expect he would be happy by her conversion...however it got fairly nasty.


LaRae

 

Well, one thing I notice is that the books recommended by Catholics are books that discuss Catholicism in a positive manner, but many (most?) of the books recommended by Protestants are books that discuss Catholicism in a negative manner. Seems that in either case the focus is Catholicism.

I think that this asymmetry largely holds regarding converts as well. In one sentence, those coming into the Catholic Church see themselves as moving from something good to something better, while those leaving the Church see themselves as moving from something not good to something good.

 

Well, one thing I notice is that the books recommended by Catholics are books that discuss Catholicism in a positive manner, but many (most?) of the books recommended by Protestants are books that discuss Catholicism in a negative manner. Seems that in either case the focus is Catholicism.

I think that this asymmetry largely holds regarding converts as well. In one sentence, those coming into the Catholic Church see themselves as moving from something good to something better, while those leaving the Church see themselves as moving from something not good to something good. </font>[/QUOTE]Bingo!

 

Prodigal Protestant" and "Who are the Beast?"


Don't get offended now. I am just funnin ya.
They haven't been written yet and probably won't be but they could be written and would be just as damaging to Protestantism as the distortions such as Dave Hunt's book mentioned above. John 6:66 would be a key verse in "Who are the Beast" if it were to be written. It seems to me however that Catholics don't feel the need to trash someone elses faith in a vile mannner. Much more confidence in asserting the positive truths of the faith rather than the negatives of the opposing sides errors. That after all seems to be Paul's method throughout his writings. Speak the truth about what Christ taught (rather than the errors of everyone elses teaching) and let the chips fall where they may.

Blessings

PS. "A House Built on Sand" might be a good one also. If it were to be written, that is.

 

If anyone is interested, here's James White's side of the story regarding his sister, Patty Bonds.

Patty Bonds article

 

And, of course, for balance, here's Patty Bond's conversion story on the Coming Home Network website:

http://www.chnetwork.org/pattybondsconv.htm

P.S. Mike G., did you know that Lord Baltimore (after which your city is named) was a Protestant convert to Catholicism? I learned that just the other day.

 

Slightly off-topic, but related I think:

I became aware that I was a Christian (again?) and sought baptism and joined my local Baptist church as a result of insight gained while reading Hans Küng's Die Kirche. Okay, well, I admit I read it in English: The Church. If there'd been a glib and unscrupulous Esperanto-speaking Jesuit around who'd been willing to run me through my catechumenate in Esperanto and then immerse me, I might have joined the RCC at that point, but the nearest Esperanto-speaking priest I could find was in Spokane, and I wasn't sure I could trust him to do it my way, so I joined Fremont Baptist.

Haruo

 

Carson - no, I did not know that. Blessings to you.