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Murph saw the passion finally!!!!

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by C.S. Murphy, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Murph:

    Once in the gospels the disciples came to Him and said that others were speaking in His name and asked Him to destroy them but Jesus said whoever is not against me is for me.

    S&T:

    In the volumes of scripture that I have posted on every thread, it is clear that divination and idol worship is against God, which, of course, also includes Jesus. I have been asked a few times now why on my profile it only said Berean. The reason I did this, is because I am so embarrased by the Baptist movement these days, especially the leadership of the SBC, that I decided to leave it off as a sign of protest. Of course, that opened up the opportunity for some of those who think me posting scriptural truth, which to them must sound like fingernails on a chalk board, to question if I am a Baptist of not, which could eliminate me from posting on the Baptist only forums, where the Passion threads are housed. I hold the Baptist tradition of my family for four or five generations now high, in respect for my ancestors who built Baptist churches in the south and who guided their choices in life by the Word of God, and not by feelings or what the world heralded as "good" or godly.
     
  2. onestand

    onestand New Member

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    Murph, contrary to the angry opposers who are upset that you actually chose to think for yourself and view this movie to see what it's all about....they'll get over it but in the meantime it's nice to know you are an addition to the folks who don't rely on bashing web sites and controling pastors or even interviews from Mel Gibson but you saw what you saw and fact is Murph, you know the truth of the bible so you were able to pick out what was real.

    Everyone's entitled to their views, I believe that goes for the Passion viewers as well.
     
  3. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    I saw the film last night as well.

    I agree with your take with the exception of the focus on Mary. I found it a constant distraction from the legitimate story line of what Jesus did for us. She was inserted almost everywhere and to a very great sense, unnecessarily. Every time I began to be in tune with how Christ's suffering was being portrayed and started to get something out of the movie, they diverted to Mary or one those weird demon appearances.

    Contrary to you, I was bothered that Mary "remains strong". It almost seemed as if she were providing Christ's strength rather than God at many points (the extra-biblical flashbacks as well as her helping him on the way and also the gazes they exchanged). I believe Mary was more likely completely broken-hearted and required the assistance of others to even make it to Calvary... thus Jesus giving John responsibility for her. If she had been present or if her presence had been significant to the event then scripture would have recorded it.

    I went to see the movie for two reasons. One, so that my wife could intelligently discuss the movie and its deviations with some of her Christian friends. Two, so that I could discuss the movie with an unsaved man at work named Ricky who had previously approached me after having been touched by it.

    Praise God, I have already had the opportunity to discuss the movie and the true implications of Christ's sufferings with Ricky. Please pray for him... I think God is working in him now.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    FWIW, I too (a former cradle Catholic) finally went to see the movie.
    I was not offended in the least by Mary’s constant presence and was mildly surprised that the movie was not even more “Catholicâ€￾ than it was. Although I must say that there were many things which were VERY subtle about the catholic underpinnings including Jesus speaking some of the Latin from the mass (I’m not 100% certain but almost so).

    To be honest there were parts of it with which I was moved (although I was certain it wouldn’t be that way).

    We need to be honest enough to say that the movie has caused (or did at first) a lot of talk in public settings and I personally have had ample opportunity to “fill in the blanksâ€￾ that the movie left in people’s minds.

    As a critic of the movie from a secular point of view, Mel Gibson is a creative genius.
    Yes, he drew from RCC tradition as much (or even more so) than from the Scripture but what did anyone expect? He is/was being true to his faith.

    HankD
     
  5. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    onestand:

    Murph, contrary to the angry opposers who are upset that you actually chose to think for yourself and view this movie to see what it's all about....

    S&T:

    Are we called to think for ourselves or to obey scripture? Scripture tells us to have nothing to do with divination and idol worship , not to flock to it.

    2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,


    onestand:

    they'll get over it but in the meantime it's nice to know you are an addition to the folks who don't rely on bashing web sites...

    S&T:

    Might I suggest that you contact the webmasters from http://www.seekgod.ca or http://www.bereanbeacon.org , or a host of others which I will supply for you, and offer to debate them scripturally and historically on their facts. I and probably some others here would like to see that.

    :eek: :eek: :eek:


    onestand:

    but you saw what you saw and fact is Murph, you know the truth of the bible so you were able to pick out what was real.

    S&T:

    Why would anyone need to "pick out what was real" from "the greatest evangelical tool of the last two thousand years" which has been heralded by "leadership" as being "scripturally and historically accurate." I personally am not interested in looking for some scraps of spiritual "food" at the bottom of a garbage can.

    [ April 09, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Spirit and Truth ]
     
  6. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    I have always stressed the ignorance of religious leaders who claim this movie to be completely accurate. after seeing it my opinion on this fact did not change. I honestly believe you are puting to much effort into the divination aspect of this movie, I may be wrong and when I reach heaven He can tell me but the message is there it is compelling and would draw nonbelievers to ask more about Christianity. Now concerning your quote above about searching thru the garbage can all I can say is that I will pray for you. Here on Good Friday I would think you would have more respect for the saviour. Yes the messenger is flawed as are you and I but the message is pure, that being that the Lord of the universe was willing to take our place on an old rugged cross. Praise God for His great love.
    Murph
     
  7. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Hi Scott, I wasn't distracted by Mary being present in all aspects of this movie but I think it's because I'm a mother. I have 3 grown kids and a 9 year old (adopted from our daughter) and even tho 2 of them live VERY far away we stay in constant contact. I'm involved in every aspect of their lives and they come to me for my thoughts on even small decisions. As a mother, I would be there every minute if my child were dying or being tried. Just my mommies take on this.

    Again, I missed the Catholic parts because I didn't KNOW about Catholic lore, etc. and like Debby and Murp have said, saw a lot of it as 'art' rendering. Afterall, it's just a movie but a movie that has caused MANY to ask questions about Jesus.
    [​IMG] HE is Risen!

    Diane
     
  8. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    Hi Scott, I wasn't distracted by Mary being present in all aspects of this movie but I think it's because I'm a mother. I have 3 grown kids and a 9 year old (adopted from our daughter) and even tho 2 of them live VERY far away we stay in constant contact. I'm involved in every aspect of their lives and they come to me for my thoughts on even small decisions. As a mother, I would be there every minute if my child were dying or being tried. Just my mommies take on this.

    Diane
    </font>[/QUOTE]Hey Diane, How are things in VR?

    Before I try to clear up the context of my comments, I will say as a father that I agree with your statements about kids.

    But in context, my objections to Mary's presence go beyond her merely "being there". I wouldn't have found that objectionable at all. It was the way she was portrayed and the things she did absent Jesus that bothered and distracted me.

    First, I believe Mary would have been grieving and broken emotionally... as any of us would if our child was subjected to such punishment unjustly. She barely cried in the movie. Wouldn't she have been heaving and sobbing? Wouldn't we? I don't believe that she was the stalwart that enabled Christ to make it through nor the leader who the Disciples sought out in Christ's absence.

    Second, the stuff about her wiping up His blood and lying on the floor above His cell and staring down the Devil probably has meaning to Catholics but I found it very distracting and objectionable.

    Third, I got the impression that she was somehow "in the know" and rising above the event rather than being a mortal follower of Christ. For instance, His supposed comment to her on the way to Calvary.

    Maybe I was distracted because the well was poisoned for me before I went- but I don't think so. I still believe that the character of Mary was very poorly done with a distinctly Catholic bias. And that bothered me- still does in fact.
     
  9. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Murph:

    Now concerning your quote above about searching thru the garbage can all I can say is that I will pray for you. Here on Good Friday I would think you would have more respect for the saviour.

    S&T:

    Actually, I have so much love and respect for the Savior, that I will speak out against this abomination and accept the ridicule with joy for my unpopular beliefs.


    Murph:
    Yes the messenger is flawed as are you and I but the message is pure...


    S&T:

    What is pure about an actor, who asked Mary and Jesus into his heart after consulting with a mystic in his families native land, and who prays to saints and Mary, portraying the demonically inspired visions of mystics...I don't get it....

    Murph:
    ...that being that the Lord of the universe was willing to take our place on an old rugged cross. Praise God for His great love.

    S&T:

    Yes...Praise His Holy Name...on that I can agree..


    the movie still stinks...
     
  10. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    HI Scott, Villa Rica is quiet, as usual. [​IMG]

    Well our 33 year old son, Scott, called me a week ago Monday to tell me his 14 month old (only) child had 2 seizures and was being checked for brain tumors, etc. Honestly, I felt a shift in my heart.... I HAD to be strong for Scott and his family. He NEEDED me to be strong for him and not sob. Right now I have to be strong for my husband who has been out of work for 2 1/2 years, working part time jobs, sometimes 3 at once. His spirit has been broken and if I were to cry, he'd fall apart. So, I can understand Mary, who knew what Jesus had told his disciples and knew he would die, staying as strong as she could during this awful time.

    I didn't understand the reason for wiping up the blood but knowing how precious His blood is for me, I would wipe it up now. Wouldn't you? The knowing exactly where Jesus was under in the jail was odd but didn't upset me. I've had a child missing in a campground before and somehow knew where to look...

    I didn't see the actor playing Mary 'stare down the devil'. I got the impression that NO one saw satan other than Christ.

    On your third point, about Jesus speaking to her on the 6 mile walk to Golgotha, he did speak to the women following. Scripture tells us that and not every deed or word was recorded. In the movie, He said 'See Mother, I make all things new.' And He does!
    It was neat to have a calm discussion about the movie! Thanks Scott! You're quite a gentleman. You make this mama proud!

    Diane

    [ April 09, 2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  11. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Diane wrote:
    "Scripture tells us that and not every deed or word was recorded."

    MalkyEL: The scripture clearly states the things Jesus did - as in miracles.

    John 20:30 And many other SIGNS truly Did Jesus, in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book:
    31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
     
  12. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy New Member

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    Yes I saw this and it was my most uncomfortable moment with Mary's portrayal. It was as if she was elavated to His level by being allowed to view satan as Christ did.
    Murph
     
  13. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    John 21:25
    And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.
     
  14. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    C.S. Murphy wrote:
    I feel that God can use even this film for His glory, hey He uses the foolishness of preaching.

    MalkyEL:
    God is definitely not into using mysticism and divination for His glory. His glory is in His Word - that's all we need to learn about Jesus.

    Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images [celluloid images of Jesus].

    *** The test is simple - is Jesus King, His Word truth? or are "feelings" His Truth?

    Deu 12:8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

    Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

    Pro 12:15 The way of a fool [is] right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel [is] wise.

    Pro 16:2 All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.

    Pro 21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

    Isa 5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
     
  15. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I did not notice the butt the first time, and I only noticed it the second time because someone told me Jesus wa naked.
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    The point here, I think Diane, that what we have been given in the movie are not just the "many other things" but "other things" which are a vital part of Catholic tradition. This verse is used all the time by the Catholic Church to support their adding of things to the scriptures. This verse could even be used to justify the old story that when Jesus was a child he turned a wooden bird that he had carved into a real bird.

    I don't think we can use this verse to justify the extra-biblical aspects of this movie.

    Roger
     
  17. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Now---I am SB to the core! But let me ask you a question here--that can apply to all of the SB'ers and the IFB'ers here---again---a hypothethical situation---

    If I came in as the brand new pastor of your church---and I started introducing certain mysticisms and divinations into my sermons--quoting from the garbage of Emmerich and others---

    or just suppose I had been pastor of your church for 20-25 years---and have been known to be honest in my expounding and exegeting of scripture--then start introducing mysticisms and divinations---

    How long would I last out at your SB church or your IFB church!
     
  18. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    blackbird:

    How long would I last out at your SB church or your IFB church!

    S&T:

    You might last a whole lot longer than you and I would think. With discernment being as it currently appears to be, the congregation might not even notice. Look at the mountain of scripture that has been presented on these threads which clearly demonstrates that there is error and things hated and forbidden by God in this movie, and many are still working feverishly at explaining it all away or downplaying it. Hey.....whole Baptist congregations are being taught from the message bible.Why would this be any different?
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Methinks minds are made up David.

    This movie is okay no matter what anyone says:(.

    So there are errors and Catholic indoctrination, so what?

    So it adds conjecture to the scriptures, so what?

    So it includes Emmerichan mysticism, so what?

    Get on the bandwagon David, don't be such a stick in the mud and quite looking for errors. After all, the pope and Billy Graham said it was okay, so its okay with me!
     
  20. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    C4K:

    After all, the pope and Billy Graham said it was okay, so its okay with me!

    S&T:

    Didn't that same pope attend an ecumenical gathering and pray together with ALL of the worlds religions including shamans and mystics?

    And isn't that the same Billy Grahm that stood silent at a gathering with his head down as they prayed to Allah, and who promoted the very ecumenically termed message bible?

    How many more reasons would a discerning individual need to not support a movie?
     
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