Music in worship

Why not the apostles used it? They didn't start everything from Scratch most of the first places they preached were in Synigogues.

 

I supposed when the trumpets blow and the church is called home, the CoC should stay behind, because they disagree with trumpets.

 

Silence does not mean it is wrong. Missionaries either use slide presentations or power point presentations to present their mission field to other churches. What authority does the NT give them to use their slide projector/computer in the church to do so? Silence does not mean it is wrong. The NT did not use electricity either. Do you?

Church buildings were unknown for at least 250 years after the death of Christ. What authority do you have? You better think some of these issues through.

I doubt if Darren will avoid posting about women pastors. Either way that is a red herring to this topic.
Show where there is no authority for mechanical instruments not to be used in church services. Look to the future. The Lord has ordained that harps will be used in the worship of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. That leaves you out. The rapture takes place first. There will be harps in heaven. Then we will come back to this earth to reign with Christ for a thousand years. If there were already harps in heaven, will Christ dispense with them on earth? I think not!

He probably got it from here:

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

The more modern translation says: Whether therefore you play a harp, blow a trumpet, use a violin or a flute, or whatsoever you do, do all to the glory of God.

It is nonsensical because you discuss opinion of the COC and not Scripture. Put forth Scriptural argument; make sense, and then it won't be "nonsensical."

You twisted Tom's words didn't you. Tom wasn't speaking about things outside of the area of worship. Where does the Bible speak of duets, trios, quartets--even without instruments? Are these wrong too, because they sure aren't mentioned in the Bible. There is silence on "specials," or special music. Does the Bible speak about taking up an offering every Sunday? Does it matter whether you bring your tithe and put it in a plate (box or whatever), as they did in Malachi, or where does one get the authority for ushers to pass a plate throughout the congregation? Did they sit in pews or in chairs in the NT? The Jewish custom was that the people stood while the Rabbi sat. But what did they do in the early churches? Do you have evidence?

Maybe they did. Do you have absolute proof that they didn't. Your entire argument rests on silence--the same thing that you are rebuking others for.

Were they worshiping as a NT church on the Day of Pentecost when they were in the Temple? The Bible says that they were a church. The Lord added to the church (in Jerusalem) daily. It was in the Temple.
Everywhere Paul met, he first met in the synagogue, until he got kicked out. If he established a church there it was a NT church. The church is not the building it is the people.

If they had the use of the synagogues why not. They used them until they were kicked out of them.

You make a dogmatic opinionated statement without proof. They didn't have computers either. But can you prove that dinasaurs didn't exist?

He is making a valid point, a little facetiously, but still valid.
The trumpet of God will sound and when the trumpet will sound those that are in Christ will be resurrected. If you don't believe in musical instruments, what will happen to you? Will your unbelief make the trumpet of God of no effect?

 

JSM17: I do not need to justify musical instruments.

Scripture mentions use of them in worship throughout Scripture, from the oldest books of the Old Testament to Revelation. His approval of using musical instruments in worship is shown. Never once does it indicate disapproval of the practice.

It is contingent upon you to justify the ban on them.

I am not avoiding the post for the reasons you are insinuating.

I am not "avoiding" it because I cannot `defend' it. I would have no need, as my congregation's minister is a male. Also, if there was something to be gained in trying to clarify Scripture's teachings on women in the church, I could do so.

However, `you know all things.' There is nothing any of us `denominationalists' would tell you that you would not be resolved to argue against. There is no chance I would change your mind, because you are here to "proclaim the truth" to us, and in your mind, we `denominationalists' have nothing to offer you. If I was to try to get you change your view on anything, it would be an exercise in futility.

I just do not want to be bothered by a pointless argument. That is what I told you before, and I was telling the truth when I told you that. Unlike what you are probably taught in the Churches of Christ, I was mentored in church groups where lying is never okay -- including in religious debate. When I told you that I did not want to take the time for a pointless argument, that was the truth.

This board is not here for you to impugn the character of us `denominationalists' to indulge your contempt for us. In regards to that contempt for `denominationalists' you are probably encouraged to have, keep it in the walls of your building.

 

Yes, I agree completely. That's why I recommend that you consider Revelation 5:8:

I take the position that if musical instruments are a part of worship in Heaven, then they should be acceptable to our rather pedestrian forms of worship here on earth. However, I will say that I used this once in a conversation with a CoC member, and she said to me, "Yes but that is Heaven and we shouldn't try to imitate them." :BangHead:

 

And how, pray tell, do you draw the distinction between worship and sacrifice? To the ancient Jews, sacrifices were the highest form or worship. Too many people today want to limit worship to singing praise songs with their hands in the air but that is only one expression of worship.

 

Let me see, following JSM17's logic, since heated baptismal tanks are not mentioned in the New Testament, then heated baptismal tanks should not be allowed in our worship services. While we are at it, let's through out some other items not mentioned in the New Testament.

Reading glasses, oh my, nobody should be allowed to wear reading glasses in worship service.

Hearing aides, yep leave them at the door, nobody should be allowed to wear hearing aides in worship service.

Depends, absolutely not, nobody should be allowed to wear depends in worship service.

Toupees, all toupees must be left at the door.

Wheelchairs, wheelchairs are not mentioned, so they must be unacceptable.

Pews, I have never found any pews in any Bible, toss them out.

Pulpits, pulpits must be evil and of the devil because they are not in the NT.

I imagine, that on any given Sunday, at most CoC worship services, I could walk in and find a pulpit, a pew, a toupee, a depend, a hearing aide, and a pair of reading glasses. I submit that all of these items (except maybe the toupee) are a help to the people using them as they worship God. Musical instruments are a help to me as I worship God.

 

I think it's a rather sad commentary that we have multiple pages debating nonessential topics like the scriptural importance of music styles, but when a person posts a prayer request, they're lucky if it goes past a single page.

 

We haven't even started debating music styles John. We're still debating the validity of music itself! :BangHead:

 

Does it say to sing congregationally or in trios and quartets? How does it say to sing? In professional choirs? Solomon had choirs, but we must not go outside of the mandates of the NT, lest we admit the usage of the OT instruments.

 

I understand what you are saying; however, prayer requests do not require debate or discussion. You read it and you pray. It is not necessary that 200 people post a reply saying "OK, I'm praying for you". If their is an update or clarification, then it will extend the posts, but I would think it unusual for a prayer request to go on for 2 or more pages.

 

We do sing.

It would be idiotic to claim that if a musical instrument is being played while we sing, we are no longer singing.

You are not going to be so idiotic, are you? You are smarter than that, right?

Further, I do not see how this would justify a ban on what God shows approval of throughout His written Word.

 

You fail to address all the other "extras" that the COC adds in that are not in the NT, not mandated by the NT. I have mentioned some of these already, but you avoid them. In this you are hypocritical. You pick and choose your issues. You are unable to be consistent.

 

You did not answer my questions:

"It would be idiotic to claim that if a musical instrument is being played while we sing, we are no longer singing.

You are not going to be so idiotic, are you? You are smarter than that, right?"​

I would appreciate an answer. Is it really your view that if musical instruments are being played while we sing, we are not singing?