Muslims and Christians At the Table

So you are claiming that all Muslims are purely evil and have no respect for anyone other than a fellow Muslim? The few Muslims that I have interacted with have not been that way at all. In fact, they have been as nice as any Christian I have interacted with and a lot nicer than several.

 

I figure about as many Muslims are faithful to the Koran as Christians are faithful to the Bible. In other words, I reckon that most Muslims are nominally Muslims just as most Christians are nominally Christians.

 

If they are true muslims...yes. The few muslims you know are probably like some Christians...they don't know what their "bible" teaches.

 

But since most of both groups are only nominally members in both groups it is rather silly to broadbrush 100% with what only a small minority adheres to.

 

Using a very strict definition how many people are "true Muslims"? Using a very strict definition how many people are "true Christians"?

 

Not at all. I am for going after anyone(regardless of his religion or lack thereof) whose actual actions are a threat to the national security of these United States. I don't believe in killing another person over words in a book that they personally are not trying to put into practice that would be harmful to the security of these United States.

 

There are very interesting paradoxes among the monotheistic religions that derived from Abraham (or at least acknowledge him as a biological or spiritual father). Christianity has no mandate to use force or violence to spread its faith, but it has done so, while historically most of its followers knew little or nothing about what its holy book teaches, instead relying on 'priests' to tell them. Then in the last few centuries, many followers reject the authority of man and follow the holy book according to their own understanding, resulting in hundreds of of differing Christian churches, some holding to literal interpretation, some rejecting most of all of that holy book. Islam does have such mandates of violence to further their faith, and some teachers and followers accept such mandates and some don't. Jews do not seek to further their faith through converts, and the holy book they are most likely to follow refers to non-Jews as "dogs," and does promote different dealings with them than with their "brothers."

All of these situation are abusive. But since most Christians are neither scriptural literalists nor fully accepting of a priesthood's authority, and most Jews do not regard non-Jews as less than human and do not double-deal them, it's probably fair to assume most Muslims do not blindly follow the violent mandates of their faith unless they have been kept ignorant and know nothing else. But it's not that simple, unfortunately. Each faith also has fundamentalist movements in which it is taught that if you are really into your given faith you will accept all of what holy book teaches; and thus we have Muslim terrorists, Christians trying to use politics, and the resettlement of Israel by Jews with murders of Muslims praying in a mosque and the assassination of the Isaeli president by a citizen who said his compromising with Arabs made him unfit.

There may be no answer to all this, but at least trying to be peacemakers, while also being vigilant, is better than nothing at all.

 

In my earlier post I stated..

True muslim = peace

infidels, christians and jews = enemy.

The enemy must either become a muslim, or die. No middle ground. No negotiations for peace without becoming muslim.

 

And just how many Muslims live their lives that way? Very, very few.

 

I think that this is a good development. No one has asked why a Christian group has not initiated such a letter. It appears to me that those of you who want to maintain the staus quo are not exhibiting much faith in God's power to change the hearts of people. This letter has the potential to get people talking about what we hold in common instead of the things that separate us. My only worry is whether the good work being started here will "trickle down" to local congregations of Christians and Muslims. From what I've read on this thread, it doesn't look promising. What are you all afraid of? That it might succeed?

Tim Reynolds

 

Tim, I can only speak for myself again in this matter but, I don't think it is a case of people being afraid and I think most all of us reading this thread would LOVE for something like this to succeed. Unfortunately, it simply is not what it appears to be on the surface.

However, How many times has America been 'violated' by Muslim terrorists? When these Islamic Terrorists attacked us here at home and abroad, it was these same Imams and Mulas who CELEBRATED the success their Allah granted the terrorists against the "infidels". They LEAD the celebrations after 9-11! Were we outraged? Did we demand that our government hunt down those who planned and executed these heinous acts or terrorism? Remember the USS Cole? Remember the Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia? Remember the African embassies? Though these were not Americans, I'm sure you remember the Breslan School massacre.... All planned and executed by Muslim terrorists with the 'blessing' of these same Muslim Imams and Mullas. All of a sudden they've changed their tune? Hello. . . I don't think so. . .

For me, that is why I do not trust what they are proposing. The ONLY thing that will win my trust is for the collective Musim world, leaders and followers alike, to speak out AGAINST the terrorists, condemn their actions and help the U.S. in rounding them up and prosecuting and/or executing them to give their proposal some credibility. Until they WALK WHAT THEY TALK, I refuse to participate. Until they turn their claim to hate 'violence' into ACTION against their radical's violence, I will not be swayed.

To me, this letter is little more than a clever ruse to gain agreement with those they feel will be gullible enough to buy into it. Now they're going to be 'nice guys' and talk peace with us? It reminds me of the agreements the Nazis made with other countries before WW-II and within a short time, they violated every one of their 'peace' agreements.

Yes, we can sit down and talk peace in good faith. Yes, we can agree to live at peace with each other. No, there will be no compromise beyond that until the Muslims WORLDWIDE rein in their own radical elements. That my brothers and sisters, simply is not going to happen. So, don't be too anxious to stake your life on an agreement with a 'force' that goes against everything that your Bible teaches you. I'm simply not ready to compromise MY faith and MY security for peace with the 'dark side'.

 

I thought that Christians were supposed to believe in the concept of redemption. I guess not when a Christian writes off a quarter of the earth's population as being beyond redemption.

 

I don't know where you are coming from with your statement, Ken. There was nothing in my message that said I was writing off ANYONE! Here is what I wrote:

"No, there will be no compromise beyond that until the Muslims WORLDWIDE rein in their own radical elements. That my brothers and sisters, simply is not going to happen."

Read it again: MUSLIMS WILL NOT REIN IN THEIR OWN RADICAL ELEMENTS. THAT is what is simply not going to happen. There was no mention whatsoever about redemption. My personal prayer time always includes those who would oppose us and that would learn the truth and come to know the Love of Christ. So, your statement has no basis other than to create controversy where there is none.

Many, if not most, non-violent Muslims are just as fearful of the radicals as most non-Muslims are since they support them through their silence or they are against them. So, if they 'oppose' the radicals, they may as well join OUR side since they are considered the same as us. Therefore, their refusal to take action is their passive approval of the radicals actions. Words mean little. Actions speak volumes. Until there are actions to back up their words of 'peace' their words are empty and meaningless.

 

I disagree with this statement.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Three page closure notice.

The thread will be closed sometime after 8.00 AM EDT today.

 

From the article:
"in 15 pages laced with Qur’anic and Biblical scriptures, argues that the most fundamental tenets of Islam and Christianity are identical: love of one (and the same) God, and love of one’s neighbor."

These Muslim leaders have mis-defined the fundamental tenets of Christianity (and purposefully so IMHO)

The fundamental tenets of Christianity all deal with the person and work of Jesus Christ. That is why it is called "Christianity". This is what separates Christians from the rest of the world. Muslims violently reject the fundamental tenets of Christianity: That is:

Jesus is the Son of God and eternally so
Jesus died on a cross
Jesus made substitutionary atonement for the sins of believers
Jesus was resurrected from the dead and assended into heaven
that salvation is by grace through faith in who Jesus is and what He did.

Muslims would never agree to these "fundamental tenets" of Christianity

peace to youraying: