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Must tithing be cash?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Gina B, Dec 14, 2010.

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  1. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Nah, there's always going to be something to be embarrassed about because there's always going to be a need for someone to do something for/in the church and there's always going to be someone who thinks someone else aught to do it and besides, once you do something and get it right then Christianity demands you continue to grow and go do something else.

    It never ends, but that ain't no reason to quit it.

    My own personal philosophy: better to go and do what is right and occasionally screw up by giving someone a much deserved verbal slap in the face for treating you stupid than screw up regularly by disobeying scripture to avoid idiots.
    Cuz they're everywhere and I'll never get all the way away so it's not worth it to tick off GOD by trying to stay away.
    Quite often one hides in my mirror too. Stinks to look up find her staring at me sometimes...
     
    #21 Gina B, Dec 15, 2010
  2. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    You could try something like giving in a blank envelope, but only enclosing what you can, even if it's just a dollar. That way you can put something in the plate but it won't be tracked back to you.
     
    #22 StefanM, Dec 15, 2010
  3. Bobby Hamilton

    Bobby Hamilton New Member

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    Take the deduction, then give 10% of the deduction back to the Church :)
     
    #23 Bobby Hamilton, Dec 15, 2010
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I hope you don't take this as piling on, but isn't embarrassment a form of pride? Should this really trump the command of believers to "not forsake the assembly"
     
    #24 webdog, Dec 15, 2010
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I am quite aware of what Peter said about the yoke of the Law. I've shared that with too many other people. I do not tithe because of the Law. I am not a Law-keeper. I tithe because of my convictions under the Holy Spirit's prompting to do so.

    Abraham tithed before the Law. It wasn't a periodic thing, I don't think and certainly wasn't mandatory, but it was his choice. Jacob made a vow to tithe before the Law. His vow was to tithe always. Again, it was his choice and not a mandate.

    Tithing is my choice based on my conviction. It's important to me. ME.

    As I said before, I do not believe that tithing justifies me. It doesn't increase my spiritual status before God. If others do not tithe, I do not argue it with them and will not argue with you. What you give under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is your business and I have no interest in it. I do not believe that what you practice as far as giving justifies you as my practice does not justify me.

    I'll never tell a person that they must do something that the Holy Spirit has not told them to do simply because I do it.

    Conversely, if the Holy Spirit has led myself and others to tithe, people shouldn't tell us that we are wrong.

    My advice to you is to stop looking, brother, because you aren't going to find it. The storehouse in Malachi was a treasury of sorts. The early church sold land, houses, and possessions and brought it to the disciples to meet the needs of certain believers who were in dire straits because they were believers.. I do not live in a communal society, but I believe that my local church is a storehouse. We meet the needs of many people - both believer and unbeliever alike - with the monies we bring. I consider the local church to be a storehouse for local believers. You don't have to view your local church that way.


    Some people cannot live off of 90% of their income - I understand that. It's hard for me to now that I am retired and am only bringing in 25% of what I was making. But I am able to squeeze by with no discomforts. And that is only because God is taking care of me. And He isn't taking care of me because I tithe. He isn't taking care of me because of anything that I do. He is taking care of me because He is faithful.

    I said in my first post that we were materialistic. Having to use your last $10 bill to put food on your table and feed your children is not being materialistic. It's being a provider for your family.

    I have no crops nor herds to give to the Lord. I have no mint nor herbs to give Him. I do have time. I do have abilities. And I have money. I know people who write a 10% check to the church and yet they attend irregularly, do not participate in the work of the church, and give no time to their church nor fellow man. I only know about their giving because I was once on the counting committee that counted the funds collected each week. I never told a solitary soul and never will. I always had to wonder why they gave. Did they believe that this money put them in a good standing with God? I don't know.

    I do believe that God wants us to trust Him with everything that we have and that includes money. It should also include our days, our families, our careers, and everything else.

    The Holy Spirit convinced me, through the teachings of my father, that a tithe of my money was a good and necessary thing for me. I watched my father tithing through the time that I lived at home with him and I saw that he did so NOT because of the Law, but because he chose to worship God that way and wanted to show his trust in God that way. I have never been even the slightest interested in what other people give.

    I will tell you this, as being a former member of the counting committee, it was a shock to find out who gave sacrificially and who gave absolutely nothing, yet could have. I'll admit, it was frustrating at first to know the small handful of people who gave nothing (not even service, time, nor abilities) yet were always the first in line to complain and cause strife, but I had to repent of that judgemental attitude and move on.

    It's all about the heart and what the heart is led to do under the influence of the Holy Spirit. I never heard sermons that said "Thou shalt tithe or burn!"

    If my initial post came out as my advocating that everyone do as I as, then I am sorry.
     
    #25 Scarlett O., Dec 15, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2010
  6. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    Read again! I said "If" and this was eluded to in post #11. There now you shouldn't be confused with my post.
     
    #26 John Toppass, Dec 15, 2010
  7. GaryArnold

    GaryArnold New Member

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    Question: How do you put God FIRST in your life with your money (income)?

    Before answering, please consider the following:

    The gospel is FREE to everyone. There is no charge for the gospel.

    When you go to a seminar, you usually have to pay to attend. When you go to a concert, you usually have to pay to attend. When you go to social events, you usually have to pay to attend.

    Why does one "go to" church? Maybe for the following reasons:
    1. For instruction / education in God's Word
    2. To worship The Lord
    3. For prayer and/or to pray
    4. For entertainment (the music, etc.)
    5. For fellowship / socializing

    WE go to church so that WE can get instruction and education in God's Word, so that WE can worship The Lord, so that WE can participate in prayer, so that WE can be entertained and enjoy the music, and so that WE can fellowship or socialize.

    WE benefit from going to church services. When WE give our offerings, is it not to PAY for what WE have received from the service? Is that giving to God, or is that paying for a service WE have received?

    Who is getting the money? Is it God? Or does the money go to PAY for salaries, the building, utilities, etc., ALL of which WE benefit from?

    In the Old Testament, God commanded the tithe be paid to HIM, and HE directed the Israelites to take HIS tithe to the Levites. HE gave HIS tithe to the Levites. Offerings to God were heave offerings, or burnt offerings, or wave offerings.

    In the New Testament, God does not tell us HOW to give to HIM other than to give to the poor. God did NOT direct HIS gifts be taken to any church.

    NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

    Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18: The First Tithe - a tenth of crops and animals and commanded to take the tithe to the Levites.

    Deuteronomy 14:22-27: The Second Tithe aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.

    Deuteronomy 14:28-29: The Third Tithe aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.

    Now, tell me. Which of the above three tithes commanded by God do you follow?

    The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

    OLD TESTAMENT - THE FIRST OF THE FRUITS SHOULD GO TO GOD
    Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

    NEW TESTAMENT - THE WORKER SHOULD BE FIRST TO RECEIVE A SHARE OF THE FRUIT
    2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

    When was the last time you heard a pastor say that you should spend the FIRST part of your income on yourself and your family?

    1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

    The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.
     
    #27 GaryArnold, Dec 15, 2010
  8. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Excellent post!
     
    #28 Steadfast Fred, Dec 15, 2010
  9. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    If you don't believe your church is the House of God, and giving the tithes and offerings, is not giving unto the Lord, then don't go and don't give anything.

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. The tithe is minimum, then there are offerings........all voluntary.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #29 Jim1999, Dec 15, 2010
  10. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    We, the body of Christ, are the House of God. God does not dwell in a building made by hands. He dwells in His Body.

    As to tithes, since God's tithe was never money, nor was money required as a tithe, and because God's tithe was only received from farmer and herders, we do not tithe.

    We do give offerings to the local sanctuary we attend. We believe we are serving the Lord in our offerings.
     
    #30 Steadfast Fred, Dec 15, 2010
  11. GaryArnold

    GaryArnold New Member

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    Any church I attend is a House of Worship.

    In the Old Testament, when God commanded the Tabernacle to be built, it was a place for God to dwell with the people. The people did not meet inside the Tabernacle. Only the priests entered the Tabernacle. The people met together and worshiped God outside under the open sky. They never entered the Tabernacle or later the Temple.

    Today, God does not dwell in a building, He dwells in our hearts. We do not have to meet at a special building or enter a special building to worship God. A church building is not needed for us to meet or worship God, nor is it needed for the center of the life of the church.

    Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

    When I attend a local church, I give financially to support the local church. I benefit from the building and the service.
     
    #31 GaryArnold, Dec 15, 2010
  12. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    I am curious, Jim. Your 'tithe,' do you get a part of that tithe back on the day that your 'tithe'?

    In the Old Testament, we read that the tithe was to be eaten by both the tither and the Levite who received the tithe at the time they tithed.
     
    #32 Steadfast Fred, Dec 15, 2010
  13. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I plan to itemize my monetary giving.

    I plan to itemize my volunteer mileage.

    I plan to itemize my in kind donations.

    When I get back my refund, I tithe that and itemize the following year.
     
    #33 SaggyWoman, Dec 15, 2010
  14. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Do I get part of tithe back. That is obvious. My first church paid me five pound a month, provided a place to live and a bicycle for transportation. In Canada I was paid $40.00 a week and a parsonage. I had to buy my own vehicle. At one church, I did architectural drawings to supplement my $10.00 a week pay. It is not a question of whether I got a part of that tithe back!

    In all my years as pastor, I never taught the old testament tithe. I taught that it was the right thing to do, and then the offerings. If a church was wasting money, I would withhold my tithe. I was never in a fancy church that wasted money. The pastor and custodian were the only ones paid. The rest were all volunteers. Did we get our tithe back? I haven't done the calculations, but I don't think so. No church paid me adequately for the hours I put in each week.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #34 Jim1999, Dec 15, 2010
  15. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    What a church gives one in exchange for work is not getting part of the tithe back. It is payment for services.

    Myself, I could not in good conscience tell my congregation to tithe of their money for reasons of what God said concerning the tithe, who was required to tithe, who was authorized to receive the tithe, and what the tithe consisted of.

    I do encourage members of the congregation to give offerings in accordance to how the Lord prospered them and not to take away from family needs in their giving.
     
    #35 Steadfast Fred, Dec 15, 2010
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