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My own Ninevah

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by TexasSky, May 23, 2005.

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  1. Brian30755

    Brian30755 New Member

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    I know you're not talking to me, but I do believe that the Bible says that Paul was an "ambassador" of Christ, which means he was an authorized messenger or representative of Christ. If our country sends an ambassador to meet with the leader of another country, he has the authority to speak for our President, so to the other country's leader, what our ambassador says is just as important as what our President would say. This is the way I see Paul's relationship with Jesus. I believe his words are just as important.

    But, I must say, personally I do find myself always trying to find what Jesus himself had to say about a particular subject.
     
    #21 Brian30755, May 23, 2005
  2. BillyMac

    BillyMac New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. Why can't you just accept the fact that she has her views and you have yours and go your separate ways and agree to disagree. Why should she be the one to retract or apologize??? You came across accusatory and with guns a blazing against her. Why don't you apologize???
     
    #22 BillyMac, May 23, 2005
  3. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Your PM has never arrived.

    I do not have a problem with many of the things you say, it just appeared that your intent was to bring back the same ole stuff up again to prove yourself right and others wrong. Maybe that was not your intent, but that is how it came off.

    Would not it have been better, to just agree to disagree with some people and start over instead of making a big drama about leaving and coming back and going all through it again?

    Some times we just have to admit that we were wrong and move on, and start over.

    Would that be so hard?
     
    #23 PastorSBC1303, May 23, 2005
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Thanks for the clarification. Why can't you just accept the fact that she has her views and you have yours and go your separate ways and agree to disagree. Why should she be the one to retract or apologize??? You came across accusatory and with guns a blazing against her. Why don't you apologize??? </font>[/QUOTE]I have not slandered her. I have nothing for which to apologize.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #24 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  5. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Some times we just have to admit that we were wrong and move on, and start over.

    With all due respect. I don't believe I was wrong.

    I believe, with all my heart, that we need to teach all of the bible, and not just Paul.

    I believe, with all my heart, that there are many people on this board who spend far too more time trying to "make someone say they were wrong," than they do trying to teach the Gospel of Christ, or trying to teach others how to teach the Gospel of Christ.

    Look back over this thread.

    How many words were spent on stating that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God?

    How many words were wasted on trying to make one woman say, "Gee, I wish I'd never said that you should not set Paul above Christ"?

    Which message matters more to Christ?

    I wasn't wrong.

    If anything, this thread proves I was right.

    It was far more important to you and to Joseph to try to paint me as some kind of heretic that doesn't love Christ, than it was to stand up and endorse the word of God.

    Should I apologize for saying that is wrong?
     
    #25 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    To put the words of Christ above the words of Paul is heresy and does damage to the inspiration of the Word of God. You should admit you were wrong and retract your statement, or be prepared for me to point out the heresy and refute it.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #26 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  7. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Now,

    That said. Before Joseph jumps in here again with more words that are full of hate.

    Joesph,

    I asked God to give me some answers in terms of how to deal with you.

    I was lead to the believe that our cultural backgrounds will cause us to never really agree on certain issues.

    I have, because I feel every Christian must, learned what other denominations and even other religions teach, but for over 40 years I have been a Christian who worships in a Baptist Church.

    I learned, after prayer, that you come from a different background. I'm excited that you are a Christian, but I suspect, from what I learned of the relgion of your background, that you have a very different view of women and their place in God's house than I have.

    May God bless you.
     
    #27 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    More slander.

    Joesph,

    I asked God to give me some answers in terms of how to deal with you.

    I was lead to the believe that our cultural backgrounds will cause us to never really agree on certain issues.     [/QUOTE]

    If you are referring to you pitting Christ against Paul in the Word of God, you are correct. We will never agree on that.

    I have, because I feel every Christian must, learned what other denominations and even other religions teach, but for over 40 years I have been a Christian who worships in a Baptist Church.

    I learned, after prayer, that you come from a different background. I'm excited that you are a Christian, but I suspect, from what I learned of the relgion of your background, that you have a very different view of women and their place in God's house than I have.

    May God bless you.     [/QUOTE]

    Exactly what is the religion of my background and what do you think my view of women and their place in God's house is? Come on...please show more of your ignorance. [​IMG]

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #28 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  9. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    As I stated before, a lot of what you say I do not disagree with. The WHOLE Bible should be taught. Somehow you have gotten that I disagree with that, and I do not!

    What I disagree with is how you handled this whole thing. You have come off arrogant, and once more you have done that in the above quote.

    You cannot see the real issue here because you are so caught up in proving and justifying that you are right. It just seems to be a big drama game to you.
     
    #29 PastorSBC1303, May 23, 2005
  10. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Ah, but you see, I feel that ~you~ have come across as arrogant.

    I stated, very, very, very early in this thread that I needed to clarify statements I made earlier because people had brought it to my attention that the meaning that I intended was not what I communicated.

    Since then, the rest of this thread has been some kind of attempt to make me ask you or ask Joseph for your forgiveness.

    What you seem to want from me is some kind of statement that I was wrong to say this board is too mean spirited. That would be a lie.
     
    #30 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    TS,

    What is the religion of my background (what religion was I raised in), and what is my view of women in the church? You seem to have some information that I don't know about. Please share it with us.

    Joseph Botwinick

    [​IMG]
     
    #31 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  12. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    #32 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  13. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    I am not the one the started the whole game. You came back not with humbleness and gentleness, but came back with guns blazing in trying to justify yourself.

    Go back and reread my initial post on this thread. It appears that you cannot deal with anyone questioning your thoughts or intentions. If that is the case, you will continually have a hard time on this board.

    Better buckle up for a bumpy ride around here if you cannot dialogue without getting your feelings hurt everytime someone questions you.
     
    #33 PastorSBC1303, May 23, 2005
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    What religion was I raised in and what are my views of women in the Church?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #34 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  15. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    What I cannot deal with is someone making false assumptions about my intentions and then expecting me to say they are right because it will make me appear "humble" if I embrace their error.
     
    #35 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  16. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    Joseph,

    According to your profile at New Jerusalem you come from a Jewish background. Or at some time in the near future you embraced the Jewish faith. In either case, Judism takes a different view of women speaking up than the average Baptist church does. I have had the impression since I met you that you expected me to embrace your point of view, if only because you are male. I, obviously, don't do that.
     
    #36 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    1. I was born and raised in a Southern Baptist Church. My dad was the first person on his side of the family to leave Judaism and become a Christian about 5-6 years before I was born. I am an ethnic Jew, not religious.

    2. I don't expect you to embrace my point of view because I am male or for any other reason. I do expect you to pick a view, and then defend it using Scripture. This far, you have failed to do so. Furthermore, I expect you not to throw a fit when somebody else challenges your worldview and debates it with you. This is a DEBATE forum. Take a look and see for yourself.

    3. Furthermore, your generalizations of the Jewish faith are not completely accurate. You do understand that there are many different views on many different things in Judaism. These people are dead wrong on many theological issues, but they do have brains and are capable of thinking for themselves.

    4. Ask Dr. Bob. He was here many years ago when I first began posting here. He knows that my views of women in the Church don't exactly fit your stereotype of what you think all Jews believe or even the views of many Southern Baptists today. I will admit, however, that I have gone back and forth on what I believe on some of these issues. You see, in spite of your generalization of me and my "culture", I do actually have a brain and can critically analyse what I do and do not believe and even change my mind every now and then.

    Joseph Botwinick

    [ May 23, 2005, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Joseph_Botwinick ]
     
    #37 Joseph_Botwinick, May 23, 2005
  18. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    Well I apologize if I have come off as arrogant, etc.

    I just simply feel that you intentions were off, and you came back the wrong way.

    But hey, whatever floats your boat. I will leave this thread alone as it is clear you have your mind made up.
     
    #38 PastorSBC1303, May 23, 2005
  19. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    SBC Pastor,

    Maybe I am a little arrogant, I don't mean to be, but I admit that I am frustrated with this entire board.

    Apparently, I grew up in a very different Baptist Church than many people at this board did. I find it fascinating. You see, I have been blessed by God by some of the finest teachers of God's word that the world has ever known. Not through a few seminary courses, but as my personal pastors.

    The man who lead me to Christ was head of the theology department at a Baptist University.

    The woman who taught me my first scripture memorizations was the wife of the president of that same university.

    The man who taught me the bible, by getting down on the floor in his study with a library of theology books and greek and Hebrew books was a man who, just a year prior to my joining his church, had been President of Southwestern Theological Seminary. He spent hours and hours and hours explaining, teaching me one-on-one because I wanted to know. He spent more hours teaching me as a member of the congregation.

    The man who taught me how to do Children's Ministry and Education ministry became head of the SBC 's Sunday Literature Board, and is, to this day, known in and out of the convention as one of the greatest church builders in the nation.

    When I went off to college, I landed in the Sunday School Class taught by the head of the Home Mission Board.

    When I changed churches again, I landed in the class of another Baptist University's Theology Professor.

    Each and every single one of these men (and women in the case of the woman who taught me to memorize scripture) stressed, over and over and over and over: Whatever you do - whatever you say - DO IT IN LOVE, SAY IT IN LOVE.

    As I read my own bible, I see over and over and over and over "LOVE one another." Love one another as Christ loved the Church. Love your neighbor as yourself. The greatest of the gifts is love.

    And yet - here, in a board designed for Christians - there is no love. Only a need to bend others to your will. Only a need to force, "I'm sorry," from people who don't think they are wrong.

    I can't bend to that kind of mentality.

    I can't pretend that I think that kind of spirit is RIGHT for any Christian to have.

    Even Paul, when he talks about rebuking others, does it with LOVE.

    LOVE first.
    Without love - there is nothing.
    Without love - we're acting as bad as the heathen.
     
    #39 TexasSky, May 23, 2005
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    BillyMac: "Why should she be the one to retract or apologize???
    You came across accusatory and with guns
    a blazing against her. Why don't you apologize???"

    Amen, Brother BillyMac -- Preach it! [​IMG]

    Just because a person gets offended because he didn't
    understand what another person said is NO REASON
    to come out "with guns a blazing".
     
    #40 Ed Edwards, May 23, 2005
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