My review of the Passion of the Christ

We saw it today....and I agree with the rest of you who have seen it. Words cannot express it.

I wouldn't even know where to start.

LaRae

 

I'm going tomorrow night again, LaRae, with a best friend from church.

Diane

 

You haven't seen it, and are hence unqualified to give a review on it. </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, Johnv, then you cannot condemn homosexuality unless you have tried it. Evidently you don't even understand the relativistic paradigm that you are using. One judges against a revealed standard of doctrinal truth, not by one's feelings. What is the meaning of TRUTH? How do you recognize TRUTH? Finally, how do you judge whether something squares with TRUTH or not? Your turn.

 

I want to go see it again. We went with 2 friends and our kids today.

What did you think about the character that represents satan? I thought that was well done.

I also thought the 'human-ness' of Jesus was done very well...it hasn't been done before...generally they focus on His divinity only. He really did suffer terribly.

I also thought the scenes with Mary were heart wrenching. I thought it was really cool that they included Claudia (wife of Pilate), St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) and Cassius Longinus the Roman who speared Jesus in the side....

Hmmm ok I guess I can talk about it! I am still trying to figure out what was up with that 'baby' the satan character was carrying???


LaRae

 

How have Christians appreciated Christ's sacrifice for us for the past 2000 yrs (approx.)? This movie just came out. Not everyone has seen a Passion Play. Christ did not demand us to remember him while watching a recreation of his death. He created the ordinance of The Lord's Supper (or Communion for those who believe that way, I'm not going to argue that point now) and told us to do this in remembrance of him. The Holy Spirit has the power to bring to mind the true essence of Christ's sacrifice without our help.

Thanks, Gina. I haven't wanted to see this movie either and couldn't put my finger on why. I don't know if I could bear watching this, even knowing that he allowed it to happen because he loved us so. I think that KNOWING he loves us so would make it even MORE unbearable for me to watch.

 

My husband just reminded me of this verse:

"Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

Carson,

Am I correct in guessing that you are a Roman Catholic? At least your theology is Roman Catholic. If so, you are accurately summarizing the content and meaning of the film. Since you are obviously espousing a RC viewpoint, my Baptist theology from a literal Biblical interpretation is in direct contradiction to your position and that of the movie. Therefore, I have established a bona fidethological objection to this heretic movie. It doesn't matter what feelings it emotes.

If my preceding premises and argument holds, Gina is right in her opposition since she seems to be articulating her views from a fundamental Baptist perspective. Therefore, you need not try to change her view of the flick unless you can persuade her to change her underlying theology. Gina is just being true to her doctrine. Understand?

Thanks for your time.

(BTW, I like your flag!)

 

I want to go see it again. We went with 2 friends and our kids today.

What did you think about the character that represents satan? I thought that was well done.

I also thought the 'human-ness' of Jesus was done very well...it hasn't been done before...generally they focus on His divinity only. He really did suffer terribly.

I also thought the scenes with Mary were heart wrenching. I thought it was really cool that they included Claudia (wife of Pilate), St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) and Cassius Longinus the Roman who speared Jesus in the side....

Hmmm ok I guess I can talk about it! I am still trying to figure out what was up with that 'baby' the satan character was carrying???


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]LaRae, I am probably a poor ignorant man who doesn't remember, but could you please tell me chapter and verse where the story of St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is found in the Scriptures? I really don't remember. I thought this was just a Roman Catholic myth. Of course, the film's followers have been denying all over the place that this flick is full of Roman Catholic theology and myth. BTW, didn't Christ's face appear on her veil too? I can't find this in my Bible regardless how I search. Perhaps you can straighten me out.

Thanks.

[ February 25, 2004, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: paidagogos ]

 

Fact: This flick is written and produced by Roman Catholics who wove their myth and theology throughout. The people making this film readily admit this (It is passing strange that only undiscerning Baptists or evangelicals are in denial). Therefore, it is heretical and antithetical to Baptist theology based on a literal interpretation of Scripture. So, it doesn't really matter how you feel, how much you liked it, how it moved you, etc.--it is still heresy. Bible-believing Baptists should shun it like the plague. If Roman Catholic theology is acceptable to Bible-believing Baptists, then the Baptist martyrs wasted their lives at the stake. For one, I think not.

 

I want to go see it again. We went with 2 friends and our kids today.

What did you think about the character that represents satan? I thought that was well done.

I also thought the 'human-ness' of Jesus was done very well...it hasn't been done before...generally they focus on His divinity only. He really did suffer terribly.

I also thought the scenes with Mary were heart wrenching. I thought it was really cool that they included Claudia (wife of Pilate), St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) and Cassius Longinus the Roman who speared Jesus in the side....

Hmmm ok I guess I can talk about it! I am still trying to figure out what was up with that 'baby' the satan character was carrying???


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]LaRae, I am probably a poor ignorant man who doesn't remember, but could you please tell me chapter and verse where the story of St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is found in the Scriptures? I really don't remember. I thought this was just a Roman Catholic myth. Of course, the film's followers have been denying all over the place that this flick is full of Roman Catholic theology and myth. Perhaps you can straighten me out.

Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'd say you are smart enough to do your own research.

As far as straightening you out...I'd say that's in God's hands not mine.


LaRae

 

Help, please! Can anyone tell me if the actor portraying Christ carried a splinter from the true cross on his person while filming? Also, did they hold Mass on the set daily? It really seems pretty much like a RC thing. Do you really think that they could objectively made this film without including their own particular doctrines? Do you accept Roman Catholic theology? Do you have a problem with mixing RC theology in a movie that is touted as an accurate and Biblical portrayal? Think about it.

 

Carson, it's good to see that you're back...I just hope you finally dropped that whole Perpetual Virginity thing.

Carson, your words confused me. Are you actually meaning to say that the only thing that brought about the cross was the love of Christ, and His yearning to provide an example for us to follow in? Let's be very clear - the cross of Christ was the greatest manifestation of God's love that this world has ever experienced, as Paul said - "God demonstrates His love towards us in this: While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Rom. 5:8). Thus, I have no problem accepting that the cross was the all-time greatest manifestation of God's love towards mankind, but that's not "all" it was as you seemed to indicate in your last post.

God's love was what kept Jesus on the cross, but it was God's holiness that required Him to come to it in the first place! And why? Because "all we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all" (Isa. 53:6). We had a sin-debt that would could not pay - that debt was essentially our inability to propitiate the wrath of God. Only the sinless Son of God could provide such propitiation, and that is just what He did: "And He is the propitiation for our sins..." (1 John 2:2).

What I mean to say is that we need to have a balanced view of the cross - it was required by the holiness of God, but it was completed by the love of God. It is this balance that John makes mention of later in his first epistle - "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10).

Maybe I just misread what you wrote, but I didn't seem to see that balance in your last reply. In fact, in the quote I've posted above, you seem to call the outpouring of God's wrath upon Christ as He hung on the cross a "faulty notion" - please tell me that you don't actually believe that.

 

Paidagogos, I really think you ought to withhold your comments until you have seen the movie. I gather that you aren't planning on seeing the movie though, so maybe you don't have much business posting here at all.

I actually agree with Brother Adam on this one: The film does take some artistic license along the way, but that doesn't negate the fact that it is still consistent with the gospels. No license was taken that was anti-biblical. Further, it is my prayer that many will come to a saving knowledge of Christ as a result of the film and that many indifferent Christians will be spurred on toward living godly lives after seeing what Christ endured for them on Calvary's cross.

Also, your claim that there is no portrayal of the resurrection is wrong - the movie ends with the resurrection! Clearly, your comments seem to be misinformed and pretty biased. I'm not a RC, and I don't believe that Catholics are Christians if they believe everything that the RCC teaches about soteriology, but that doesn't mean that a Catholic movie director can't give us an accurate portrayal of the events recorded in the Gospels. An accurate portrayal is just what this movie is.

 

Yes Todd, that is what he is getting at.

 

I want to go see it again. We went with 2 friends and our kids today.

What did you think about the character that represents satan? I thought that was well done.

I also thought the 'human-ness' of Jesus was done very well...it hasn't been done before...generally they focus on His divinity only. He really did suffer terribly.

I also thought the scenes with Mary were heart wrenching. I thought it was really cool that they included Claudia (wife of Pilate), St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) and Cassius Longinus the Roman who speared Jesus in the side....

Hmmm ok I guess I can talk about it! I am still trying to figure out what was up with that 'baby' the satan character was carrying???


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]LaRae, I am probably a poor ignorant man who doesn't remember, but could you please tell me chapter and verse where the story of St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is found in the Scriptures? I really don't remember. I thought this was just a Roman Catholic myth. Of course, the film's followers have been denying all over the place that this flick is full of Roman Catholic theology and myth. Perhaps you can straighten me out.

Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'd say you are smart enough to do your own research.

As far as straightening you out...I'd say that's in God's hands not mine.


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE] LaRae, when your King is checkmated, the honorable thing is to acquiesce. You know as well as I do that St. Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is a Roman Catholic legend. And this flick is full of it. So, RC theology, including the mythical parts, is not a problem for you or you have no problem is mixing truth and error. The St. Veronica, for one, shoots a great big hole in the fantasy that this film is eminently Biblical. It ain’t. It is also purely Roman Catholic propaganda. It has just enough truth to make it palpable for undiscerning Baptists. BTW, why do you think this thing was released on Ash Wednesday at the beginning of Lent? Duh? I don't recall this as a Baptist holiday.

 

I want to go see it again. We went with 2 friends and our kids today.

What did you think about the character that represents satan? I thought that was well done.

I also thought the 'human-ness' of Jesus was done very well...it hasn't been done before...generally they focus on His divinity only. He really did suffer terribly.

I also thought the scenes with Mary were heart wrenching. I thought it was really cool that they included Claudia (wife of Pilate), St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) and Cassius Longinus the Roman who speared Jesus in the side....

Hmmm ok I guess I can talk about it! I am still trying to figure out what was up with that 'baby' the satan character was carrying???


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE]LaRae, I am probably a poor ignorant man who doesn't remember, but could you please tell me chapter and verse where the story of St Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is found in the Scriptures? I really don't remember. I thought this was just a Roman Catholic myth. Of course, the film's followers have been denying all over the place that this flick is full of Roman Catholic theology and myth. Perhaps you can straighten me out.

Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]I'd say you are smart enough to do your own research.

As far as straightening you out...I'd say that's in God's hands not mine.


LaRae </font>[/QUOTE] LaRae, when your King is checkmated, the honorable thing is to acquiesce. You know as well as I do that St. Veronica (the woman who went to Jesus when He fell on the way to Golgotha) is a Roman Catholic legend. And this flick is full of it. So, RC theology, including the mythical parts, is not a problem for you or you have no problem is mixing truth and error. The St. Veronica, for one, shoots a great big hole in the fantasy that this film is eminently Biblical. It ain’t. It is also purely Roman Catholic propaganda. It has just enough truth to make it palpable for undiscerning Baptists. BTW, why do you think this thing was released on Ash Wednesday at the beginning of Lent? Duh? I don't recall this as a Baptist holiday. </font>[/QUOTE]My King is never checkmated.

I don't recall anyone denying it's a movie made by a person who believes in Catholic teaching. It's hardly been hidden.

People can go see it or not...that's a individual decision.


LaRae

 

Todd,

You need to get your information straight before lecturing me on what I ought to do.

Firstly, I did not make the claim that the resurrection is not portrayed. Someone else did that. So, recant.

Secondly, you are assuming that I have not seen the movie. You really don’t know. Do you? I haven’t said and it is terrible form to make unwarranted assumptions in a debate. I’m not saying because I vehemently reject the “willy-nilly” premise that one must experience before he can judge. Do you believe that homosexuality is wrong? How can you condemn it without trying it? You are in a different paradigm, you see. You are not reasoning antithetically. The standard for judging anything spiritually is revealed TRUTH, not experience or feeling. This is our basic disagreement, not the trivial details of the pictures.

Thirdly, you have not addressed the issues even though you did skirt around them. Is Roman Catholic theology heresy? Can you mix heresy with truth and still have a good product? Since Roman Catholicism is syncretic, it can mix anything with its theology and still come out the winner. Baptist theology cannot.

In sum, this is a bad movie because it can and is leading people astray. This is not a tool for evangelism, but it is a means of proselytizing for Roman Catholicism. Can you rationally refute this? Can you deny it? Or, does it even concern you? Take your choice but be man enough to speak up and face up to it. Don’t fantasize.



P.S. You admit: "I'm not a RC, and I don't believe that Catholics are Christians if they believe everything that the RCC teaches about soteriology, but that doesn't mean that a Catholic movie director can't give us an accurate portrayal of the events recorded in the Gospels."

Just how much error can you tolerate in soteriology? Was the Reformation justified?

Also, you are riding the wrong horse. Except for the Veronica myth, et. al., I am not questioning the story line as much as the meaning taught through the dialogue, symbolism, scenes, etc.

Again, you said: "Clearly, your comments seem to be misinformed and pretty biased."

What am I misinformed about? Give my specific errors. Biased? No more than you. Just because I disagree doesn't mean that I'm biased (partial, unfair, prejudiced, etc.). I disagree with the Roman Catholic theology in the movie. What's wrong with that? Can you show me where I am in error? The RC theology is there. The people making the movie admit it. The RC organization admits it. But poor fair-minded Baptists hail it as Biblical. It is not Biblical because it does not teach Biblical doctrine. I'm not talking about events or the story. Roman Catholics and Baptists can agree on the details of the narrative but they are miles apart in what it means. I'm talking about the teaching (i.e. doctrine).

 

Someone please help me. I really can't find the nuns in the Biblical account.

 

Paidagogos, you have committed a logical fallacy by concluding that just because there are some RC overtones in the film that the film is not biblical. This is like a discussion I had with Harley not too long ago - he informed us all that John Calvin vehemently clung to the Perpetual Virginity of Mary and said if we couldn't accept that part of his theology, then maybe we ought to consider not quoting him at all. Are you prepared to stop quoting John Calvin just because he espoused Perpetual Virginity? How about Martin Luther - he was a believer in the false doctrine as well. Because you've already made mention of the Reformation in an earlier post, I can hardly imagine that you would be willing to cast aside all the theology of the Reformers just because they were wrong about Perpetual Virginity. Let's think about the issue at hand though - isn't that what you're attempting to do with this film? Just because it has some RC overtones, then then the movie is bad because it's not biblical? Please! You should have learned long ago that when it comes to theology, we must embrace that which affirms God's Word and we must reject that which defies it. This movie is overwhelming accurate when placed against the gospel accounts, though it does include some artistic license and a few RC overtones. And as far as it's "doctrine," what kind of doctrine is it promulgating? All the movie does is re-enact the last 12 hours (+ resurrection) of the life of Christ in dramatic fashion. What doctrine is being espoused there except that which is contained in the gospels? The movie does not deleniate doctrine for the movie goer - it simply tells the story. It is up to the movie goer to formulate their own doctrines - you should know this.

You said in your last post: "In sum, this is a bad movie because it can and is leading people astray. This is not a tool for evangelism, but it is a means of proselytizing for Roman Catholicism. Can you rationally refute this? Can you deny it? Or, does it even concern you? Take your choice but be man enough to speak up and face up to it. Don’t fantasize."

This is nothing short of ridiculous. Have you met someone who has been "led astray" by the movie? In what ways have they been led astray? In what ways is this a means of proselytizing for the RCC? There's not even a mention of the RCC in any part of the movie (Opening, Body, Credits, etc.). The inclusion of such things as the woman who brought water to Jesus along the Via Delorosa is not a means of RCC proselytizing mainly because 99% of the people who attend the movie know nothing of a "St. Veronica" legend. Moviegoers who know nothing of the tradition will just see it as use of artistic license, and such should not be unpermissable in a MOVIE depicting an actual historical event.

As far as me not acting as a man and fantasizing in my last post, I think you could use a little humility. Coming in here and berating people is an act of cowardice when you are sitting behind a keyboard. Would it be too much to ask that you keep your comments centered around the issue at hand rather than trying to make things personal by name calling and insinuating things that you have no idea about?