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my testimony

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rodgertutt, Dec 18, 2006.

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  1. rodgertutt

    rodgertutt New Member

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    You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

    Because my testimony is helping so many people, I am posting it here so it will stay on your front page for awhile if that's ok with you. The many entries in my guest book that is accessible towards the bottom of the front page on my site, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, show that the content of my testimony is helping many people.

    You can access my website through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

    MY TESTIMONY​


    The idea that God lets any creature suffer endlessly has caused me more suffering than all other problems of my life combined. By the time I had reached the mission field I had hoped to have found a satisfactory answer that would justify God allowing this to happen. I didn't find such an answer. Surrounded by thousands of people, dozens of whom were dying every day and beginning an eternity of suffering in hell was too much for me.

    In 1966, at age 28, it caused me to have a nervous breakdown. For several weeks I was confined to my bed in a state of terror night and day. The terror was caused by the fear of what a God I could not love or respect would do to me after I died. It took me twelve years to fully recover from the breakdown. I quickly became agnostic, for the Christian gospel and the Bible were no longer any comfort to me at all. Many evangelical friends tried to help me. They meant well, but in the end they all had only words of condemnation towards me. This added more suffering to my already intense suffering.

    Gradually I began to learn that there have been, in centuries past, and still are today, a few people in the world that see a different kind of God in the Bible. They see a God who will not let any creature suffer forever. They see a God in the Bible who will change every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened, including the sufferings of Satan. I learned that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. I read dozens of books, and listened to hundreds of tapes by men who believe this way and I gradually became converted to believing this way myself.

    Since 1981, through my newspaper ads and my telephone ministry, I have sent out many hundreds of packets of literature explaining why I believe as I do. I have also sent this evidence to hundreds of pastors and Bible school teachers. None of them have told me that they are able to refute it. I have also read eight books that were supposed to refute the evidence in favor of universalism, but none of them do. Because of this evidence, my panic attacks became less frequent until twelve years after my breakdown they ceased altogether. Now nothing gives me greater pleasure than to make this evidence available to others who have suffered because of the same problem I had even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel for themselves, and I use a substantial amount of my money and time to this end.

    Because of the enormous amount of suffering the idea of "endless hell" causes in this world, I am asking you to consider the possibility that you should stop endorsing the idea that the Bible teaches it. Or, at least, let others know that there are (and have been in centuries past) people who do not think the Bible teaches it.

    Many of the responses from pastors and teachers range from a mild: "The majority don't agree with you so you must be wrong", to the vicious "For every week you leave your ad in the papers, God will increase the temperature of the fires of hell for you personally".
    Most are somewhere in between these remarks. But none have told me they are able to refute the evidence. And, until they can, they will not be able to stop me from sharing the good news that a correctly (literally) translated Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

    A website that answers all the arguments that seem to support the idea that the Bible teaches endless suffering in hell is TENTMAKER. Although forum rules prevent me from posting forum links, you can easily Google it up. The “scholar’s corner” under “research” deals with every aspect of the subject. The more than 600 page search engine at the top of this same TENTMAKER front page is also very comprehensive regarding this subject. Just type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage, and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilation doctrines.

    I am also going to guide you all to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.

    You can Google up his testimony by typing in ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE

    You can access my testimony through Google by typing in Rodger Tutt.

    It may well be that a few members of this form or surfers will be able to benefit from the testimonies of Charles and myself.

    May God's blessing rest with your spirit!
    From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
    “That God may be All in all” 1Cor.15:28
     
    #1 rodgertutt, Dec 18, 2006
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    The Bible teaches that the wicked will burn in Hell for a certain period of time and then they will perish.
     
    #2 Claudia_T, Dec 18, 2006
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For God so loued ye world,
    that he gaue his only begotten Sonne:
    that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
    should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

    Of this we can be sure:

    Jesus provided a way to go from
    a state of 'perish' to a state of 'everlasting life'.
    Jesus provides this transistion to
    'whosoever believes in Him'.

    I'm going to bet my eternal fate on what I'm sure of:
    believing in Jesus.     If there are other ways to
    get saved, I'm not so sure of them.

    Romans 10:9 )KJV1611 Edition):
    That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth
    the Lord Iesus, and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
    that God hath raised him from the dead,
    thou shalt be saued.

    In 1952 I first confessed Jesus as my Lord
    while believing in my heart that God had raised
    Him from the dead. I was saved then and I'm saved
    now. I'm going to bet my eternal fate on what
    I'm sure of: confessing Jesus as Lord while believeing that
    God raised Him from the dead.
    If there are other ways to get saved, I'm not so sure
    of them.
     
    #3 Ed Edwards, Dec 18, 2006
  4. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    At the end of the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25, we read:

    Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

    Thus, I think it is safe to say that however long eternal life is, that is how long eternal punishment is.
     
    #4 Helen, Dec 18, 2006
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    What I am about to say is not meant to encourage you in your false doctrine or make you feel better about God. It is meant to proclaim the truth of God for the Glory of God:

    Without Christ, you will burn in Hell forever and ever, and God still remains just and fair.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #5 Joseph_Botwinick, Dec 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2006
  6. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Notice, Jesus said in that famous Bible verse:

    "But whosoever believeth in Him,

    should not PERISH, but have everlasting life"


    whats the opposite of everlasting LIFE?

    everlasting DEATH. Thats why its called THE SECOND DEATH.

    Rv:20:14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


    Has everlasting or eternal fire ever been visited upon men in the past?


    "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.



    What was the result of this eternal fire upon those cities?


    "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6.




    ​
     
    #6 Claudia_T, Dec 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2006
  7. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    the wicked dont get the gift of everlasting life in Hell.

    they get everlasting death after burning awhile in Hell. The SECOND DEATH.

    only God's people get the gift of everlasting life.

    Malachi 4:
    1: For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
    3: And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.


    Mt:3:12: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


    Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
     
    #7 Claudia_T, Dec 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2006
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    "Destroy BOTH body and soul in hell fire" Matt 10. We do not have immortal bodies - we do not have immortal souls. There is no text in all of scripture that says "man is immortal" NOR is there any that says "Man has an immortal soul".

    But aside from that - Rev 14 makes it clear that the 2nd death is sufferred by the wicked "IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb and of His Holy ones" Rev 14:10.

    So every second of your loved one's torment WILL BE witnessed BY YOU!

    Think about it. - This is innescapable. That is why Matt 10 is so important to accept rather than reject when reading Rev 14:10.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Dec 19, 2006
  9. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    This is hilarious. A guy posts his beliefs concerning whter or not Hell exists, and you guys end up arguing over whose concept of eternal damnation is most correct.

    Me, I wish we could remove all discussion of Hell from our conversations with nonbelievers -- or those who dare to believe different things about the same faith. "You're going to Hell" is a terrible way to demonstrate the saving love of Jesus Christ. It isn't love at all, in fact: it's a cry of triumph.

    Maybe the unsaved burn in Hell for eternity, maybe they burn then... umm, whatever it is the SDAs say happens after that, I can't figure it out, or maybe rogertutt is right. Or maybe none of us are right.

    I double-dog-dare you to stop talking about what's going to happen to people you don't like when they die, and start acting like you love the people Jesus loves.
     
    #9 tragic_pizza, Dec 19, 2006
  10. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Tragic,

    Speaking of God's love, I have been in many Christian chat rooms where Atheists tell how they were turned off from Christianity and from God because of the belief that God burns people in Hell forever.

    And so it becomes very important what one believes on the subject because the false concept has turned thousands of people away from God and makes Him out to be a cruel God instead of a God of love. I dont like people slandering God's name.

    And so if I love people Jesus loves I am therefore going to talk about this subject.

    Claudia
     
    #10 Claudia_T, Dec 19, 2006
  11. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Well we can't stop talking about it, regardless of what one believes about it, becuase Scripture talks about it. You can't ignore one part of the Bible in favor of another part. You have to take the whole.

    On on the whole God's Justice and Holiness and Righteousness is talked about and so is His Love. However you can't dismiss His Justice, Holiness and Righteousness in favor of His Love, because you don't like the other three.

    God is Who He is and we must accept it all. And we must talk about it all. God does love the unsaved sinner, but the reality is if he/she does not believe in the subtitionary death and shed blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Lamb, that died and shed His blood on their behalf a sinner, they are going to the lake of fire. That's just the reality of the situation. Why sugar coat it?
     
    #11 J. Jump, Dec 19, 2006
  12. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Claudia, I think you are confusing what eternal life and eternal death are. Jesus defines eternal life in John 17:3 as KNOWING the Father and the Son. Therefore eternal death is not knowing them. The 'knowing' here is not an intellectual acknowledgement, for we know the Bible says that there will be a time when every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    The knowing Jesus speaks about is a close personal relationship, as in "Adam knew his wife and she conceived..."

    So what eternal death is -- and it is very real and biblical -- is eternal separation from God.

    Since God is love, and His characteristics include mercy, justice, grace, and with Him we find peace, joy, fellowship etc., that means that eternal death will be forever without mercy, justice, grace, peace, joy, fellowship.

    And that, my dear, is truly eternal torment, for we were created to love and be loved and to be without that forever.....

    Pay attention to Jesus' words regarding the sheep and the goats which I quoted above. Either that or call Him a liar....
     
    #12 Helen, Dec 19, 2006
  13. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Notice it says the punishment is EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION from the presence of the Lord:

    2Thes:1:9: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

    Now I ask, how it is possible for someone to suffer EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and EVERLASTING TORMENT at the same time? Obviously someone has misunderstood something?


    Notice the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in Hell:

    Rom:6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


    Notice it says punish-ment not punish-ing (as on an ongoing thing)

    Mt:25:46: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Helen, I have to come back and re-read what you said later and reply to it... because I havent quite caught what you are saying yet..
     
    #13 Claudia_T, Dec 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2006
  14. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    JJ, we agree again! What is going on? It must be the season!:laugh:
     
    #14 Amy.G, Dec 19, 2006
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    What?:eek:
     
    #15 Amy.G, Dec 19, 2006
  16. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon Well-Known Member
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    It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad, eh?
     
    #16 FriendofSpurgeon, Dec 19, 2006
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I'm glad that someone loved me and my wife enough to not sugar coat hell and the fear of spending eternity there. This is what brought us to the realization we needed Christ... a Savior from that dreaded place.
     
    #17 webdog, Dec 19, 2006
  18. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    I find it odd that some would want to pretend that part of the Bible doesnt exist. The subject of Hell IS in the Bible, you know? Apparently God thought it was important or else it wouldnt be there.
     
    #18 Claudia_T, Dec 19, 2006
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You're right. That and the fact Jesus taught more on Hell than anything else should say something.
     
    #19 webdog, Dec 19, 2006
  20. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    See I'm not such a bad guy after all . . . ?
     
    #20 J. Jump, Dec 19, 2006
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