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My Views, Your Vote

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Michael Wrenn, Nov 5, 2001.

  1. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua <img src=/cjv.jpg>

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    Michael,

    As another note on the BoCP, after a few oddballs said that the liturgical worship in our church was not "baptist" I sent my copy of the BoCP around to several baptist historians to sign. It now has signatures from Glenn Hinson, Loyd Allen, Bill Leonard, and Buddy Shurden is on the way.

    Joshua
     
  2. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Josh,

    In what way(s) do you think I would be uncomfortable with the UM Book of Discipline?
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Karen,

    I don't mind being a case study for you even now--as long as you don't consider me a "mental case" sudy. ;)
     
  4. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    MW, I can't read minds, but I don't think Chris Temple despises you but he does not agree with your beliefs.
    You free to use your own volition to believe anything.
    I for one disagree with some of your doctrines and by disagreeing I think you are wrong. And I'm sure where you don't go along with my doctrine, you think I'm wrong or you would believe as I do.
    I'm sure Chris would diagree with me on some doctrine, because I know I disagree with him, but I do look at him as a brother in the Lord.
    We are here on earth for God's glory and not our own.
    I would be willing to fight for you to have your doctrine even though I disagree with you and I would hope you would be willing to do the same.
    Just because someone disagrees with you doesnot mean they despises you but God tell us we are to love one another, even though we might think the other is nuts.
     
  5. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Bob,

    Thanks.

    You haven't read all of Chris's posts to me. And you haven't accused me of damnable heresy.
     
  6. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Hey- you asked [​IMG]


    (1) Associate church membership for infants/young children

    Lutheran, Catholic
    (2) Infant dedication

    Baptist, other anti-infant baptism denoms.
    (3) Believer's baptism only (no infant
    baptism)

    Baptist, other anti-infant baptims denoms.
    (4) No "once saved, always saved"

    Catholic, Lutheran, Unitarian Universalist, Mormon, list goes on.

    (5) Baptism by immersion, with exceptions
    (illness, disability)

    Baptist

    (6) Symbolism of ordinances

    Baptist, CRC

    (7) Soul lioberty

    what's lioberty [​IMG]

    (8) Church-state separation

    most denominations, except Catholic in some cases.

    (9) Religious liberty

    most denominations

    (10) Priesthood of the believer

    most denominations

    (11) Freedom of Bible interpretation

    yeah right! freedom? come'on now you know better than that!

    (12) Absolute local church autonomy
    --voluntary giving
    --church may call pastor
    --church may ordain whomever it wishes
    --church owns its property

    Definitely a Baptist disctinctive. Don't join a Catholic or Lutheran church.

    (13) Absolute equality of members, including
    gender equality--any member, male or
    female , may serve the church in any
    capacity

    Lutheran, Methodist

    (14) Prayers for the dead

    Catholic

    (15) Candles in worship service

    Catholic, Lutheran, even some Baptist from what I have been told

    (16) Periods of silence in worship service

    all around

    (17) Some written prayers acceptable

    Catholic, Lutheran, CRC

    (18) Open communion--any believer may
    partake; water baptism not a
    prerequisite

    don't know any :confused:

    (19) Occasional readings from the Apocrypha
    acceptable

    Catholic, of course to them it isn't the apocryha.

    (20) No clergy titles such as "Reverend"

    obviously not Catholic or Lutheran.

    (21) Bible, the final external authority, but
    use God-given reason and experience in
    interpretation of scripture

    Lutheranism is an excellent example of this.

    (22) The Light of Christ in every human being

    All as far as I know, I am assuming you mean saved people.

    (23) Jesus Christ, the criterion by which
    scripture is interpreted under the
    guidance of the Holy Spirit

    most as far as I know

    (24) Lay-administered ordinances

    Okay; there they are, so, now...what do you vote? Am I a Baptist? If not, what? [​IMG]

    You ain't no Baptist that's for sure! ;)

    I would almost suggest finding a solid non-demon church.

    UNP, Adam
     
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Adam,

    To answer your answers [​IMG]:

    The Quakers believe in associate membership for infants; Lutherans and Catholics don't, that I'm aware of; they believe in baptized membership for infants.

    General and Free Will Baptists, and many others, do not believe in "once saved, always saved."

    Many Baptists believe in ordaining women.

    Methodists believe that water baptism is not prerequisite to communion, and so does every Baptist church in my area that I've visited.

    I believe the Light of Christ is in all human beings from the beginning of their lives.

    Some here think I'm Baptist, some don't, and some are not sure. [​IMG]

    Thanks for your response.
     
  8. rtjw

    rtjw New Member

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    Michael this is my first reply on this messageboard.
    I would not worry about what anyone has said on this discussion. Quit looking for what denomination you are. I know what you are! Your CHRISTIAN. Not Baptist, Methodist, Catholic or anything else. Quit worrying about it.
     
  9. ellis

    ellis New Member

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    Michael,

    There are a few things in your list which I probably would not agree with. I'm pretty solid in the "once saved, always saved" camp, and the titles for clergy in my church are not authoritarian, but done out of respect.

    However, I think I have stated before that you would be welcome in my church, and I am absolutely certain of that. You would probably be comfortable here, too, since the vast majority of our congregation would not be critical of you, even in areas where they might not agree. It would probably take a while for them to discover where the disagreement existed.

    You know, I've been a member of this church all my life and even though I was aware that there were different kinds of Baptists, I always thought that we were "just Baptist". Coming to this board has piqued my curiosity enough to dig in and find out exactly what kind of Baptist we are. Our heritage, through our mother, grandmother, great-grandmother churches, goes back to the First Baptist Church of Providence, RI. Our church selects its pastoral and staff candidates from those licensed and ordained by the American Baptist Churches, USA and we are affiliated with the Arizona Association of that organization. So I guess we are "just Baptist".
     
  10. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    ellis,

    Thanks again; I always appreciate your posts. Thanks also for the encouragement, affirmation, and welcoming words.
     
  11. Deitrich B

    Deitrich B New Member

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    Michael
    Im new here but I read through this thread. While you might be a little bizarre to some folks you are more Baptist than most of the folks who attempted to respond to you. Relax, brother you are just the kind of man I want next to me in the pew!!
    DB
     
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Deitrich,

    Thanks!
     
  13. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:

    (1) Associate church membership for infants/young children
    (4) No "once saved, always saved"
    (13) Absolute equality of members, including
    gender equality--any member, male or
    female , may serve the church in any
    capacity
    (14) Prayers for the dead
    (18) Open communion--any believer may
    partake; water baptism not a
    prerequisite
    (19) Occasional readings from the Apocrypha
    acceptable

    Okay; there they are, so, now...what do you vote? Am I a Baptist? If not, what? [​IMG]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, not quite a Baptist. More like a heretic.

    --B C
     
  14. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    katie,

    Yeah, there IS something wrong--with denominations. Jesus didn't create them; humans did that.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You know why?

    Because people ceased to follow scipture and instead followed their feelings. Hence, different beliefs. As long as there are at least two differing beliefs, there will be denominations. That's how you distinguish between you and the guy who believes differently.

    --B C
     
  15. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Brian Collins,

    I don't appreciate your calling me a heretic. I have an appropriate name for you, but this in an inappropriate place for it.
     
  16. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    Brian Collins,
    I don't appreciate your calling me a heretic.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    OK.

    I don't appreciate your heretical views. Does that make us even? [​IMG]

    Nonetheless, you asked for my vote and got it.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I have an appropriate name for you, but this in an inappropriate place for it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, sir, what is the appropriate place for it? I'd call you nothing outside of here that I wouldn't call you here.

    --B C
     
  17. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Mike, you sound like your own denomination rather than a Baptist. One wonders if you're going to be punted over to the "other religions" threads.... [​IMG]

    Even though Brian's comments might be considered harsh, please remember that you asked for them. Was the intent of this thread to garner a cheerleading section to reinforce your already-set point of view that you have the right to believe what you want? Or did you really want people to tell you what they thought?
     
  18. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Brian,

    Heretical just because YOU say so? I think not.

    Don,

    What I wanted was for people to tell me what denomination they thought my views best lined up with. I did not invite people to call me a heretic. I'm getting tired of people doing that just because my views don't agree with their own self-righteous, judgmentalism. For them, I have some advice: Take the insults and shove 'em.
     
  19. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Hey, you asked; he told you. He believes your views line up with heresy.

    I stand with what I said: You asked for people's opinions; you're getting them. If you'd prefer to have cheerleading, then you should make that clear from the get-go.
     
  20. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I asked for opinions on what denomination my views fit best in, not for insults or charges of heresy.
     
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