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My Way or the Highway

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Aaron, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson Active Member

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    Sounds like you're avoiding the question.
     
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    How about on the back with a rod? Not the butt—the back.
     
    #62 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2009
  3. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    You cannot justify abuse scripturally, period. Why do you keep changing the question? First it was spanking, then clobbering, now beating on the back. When asked about the clobbering, you changed the subject. Why? There is a difference between abuse and godly correction, and it's not that complicated. Trying to make it so seems like you're condoning it.
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The reward system wasn't invented for animals though trainers have found that it works very well. You can't save the souls of your children all you can do is train them up in the way they should go. If they are saved at all it's not up to you. It's up to God and the child. The Bible says to train them up.
    Sorry your having trouble with your horse. Top horse trainers use the rewards system too. Though rather than reward I believe in letting the horse choose instead of choosing the horse myself. Like children they too are looking for leadership all the time. It's the leader on the play ground that gets the attention of the children and you need there attention inorder to train them. Some will give them a treat in hopes of winning there following but I let them come to me and try to get my attention. Once they come to you they are already following you. Then you can lead them and teach them. Training is always about right and wrong behavior. We encourage the good and discourage the bad. If you have a better way I'd like to hear it.

    MB
     
  5. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Do you advocate killing rebellious children?
     
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The child who needs such physical discipline is always the result of neglect in the first place. There are rebellious children and everyone of them IMO were not trained properly. Rebellion is in our nature. Submission is taught. If submission is taught early you have over come the childs rebellion before it get's started.
    MB
     
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I've heard some say the Bible speaks of "the rod" because a parent should not use his or her hands to hit a child. The parents' hands are made to touch and guide the child with tenderness and love.

    I am wondering what you all think of this. I was not a believer until my son was past age 9, so I have not really dealt with this issue as a believer.
     
  8. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    If you study the word translated as "rod" in the Old Testament you will find it means to rule more than a stick to hit with.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yes, rewards work with children and trust me, I've used that method. However, treating our children the same as we train animals is wrong, IMO. We are dealing with the very souls that Christ died for - not just an animal. Not once does God tell us that we would be better off with a millstone around our neck and thrown into the water if we don't train an animal well.

    Nope - Actually I'm doing quite well with my horse - who is a creature who cannot be beaten into submission. All that ever did with the trainers that worked with him was to create a 1600 lb. monster. It's taken me 4 years to get him past that fear that he has of doing something wrong. He still has some issues and we're waiting on the vet to call back about getting him some sort of anxiety medication because of all of the abuse he's had a the hands of trainers that still come back to haunt him. But today I worked with him getting his kicks out after not being ridden for 5 weeks due to ice and snow and then I had a beautiful ride on him. He's a mush - he's my baby and he absolutely loves to please me. If you read To Train Up a Child, you will see that his idea of training a horse is to expose him to something then beat him when he reacts in the natural way that he would. This is how he says we're to train our children too. Bait them then beat them when they do what we've just set the conditions for them to do. As I said, if I did that to Whirl, he'd kill. There's no reason for it because I'm not gaining his trust and confidence - I'm making a fearful animal. When we do it with our children, we end up with behavior without heart. That's a dangerous place to be.
     
  10. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Eph 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.


    Col 3:21 Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.


    Punching and abusing our children is not proper biblical discipline. Doing that would be provoking them to anger. First of all I don't think anyone could clobber their child unless they were doing it out of anger. I don't think discipline should be of anger but of love, and that includes spanking. If a parent is so angry they want to strike their child they need to take a moment to calm themselves before disciplining the child.

    If a child has done wrong they know down deep that they are deserving of punishment even though they might not act like it or even act angry. If however the discipline is overly harsh not only are they more likely to miss the real point of what they did wrong and the disciplnie they deserved, but they will be provoked to a genuine long term anger. That type of anger will not only damage the child but will damage the relationship with the parent as well. The parent is actually creating a more rebellious child who is more likely to rebel against God when older.
     
    #70 Steven2006, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2009
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    You already answered the question about clobbering, so I asked a different question.
     
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Amen! All this talk about "being God to them" is so much fluff, and unbiblical. I pray for my girls' hearts. I beat their butts.
     
  13. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry for you Aaron. I do not know how old your children are but I will pray for their hearts too. I have counseled many young women who cannot understand the father heart of God because their own fathers were abusive. I'm not saying that we are God to them but we are the first teaching of how God deals with them - from infancy on up. An overly harsh, abusive father will give an absolutely wrong view of their Heavenly Father to them. I'm grateful that my daughters have a healthy view of God and have given Him their hearts.
     
  14. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Better pray for Aaron's KIDs! Sounds like he is advocating abuse!

    From clobbering, to beating their backs, to ignoring the question about killing rebelious kids, to advocating violence against nephews..

    Aaron, I wouldn't let you around kids If I had authority over you...

    DON'T EVER COME AROUND MY KIDS!!!

    What a disgusting display of sin!

    Aaron.. get professional help...

    And Lord help your children!
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Did I forget to mention my thumb screws? Got stocks in the front yard, too.
     
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Gotta rack in the basement, and an iron virgin. I've gotta fab shop makin' chastity belts for 'em too.
     
  17. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Maybe you could open up an etsy shop and sell them things? I've got a 6 month old daughter...I would buy one of them chastity belts from you. The rack may be helpful for my boys.
     
  18. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    Actually....I have no interest in having perfectly behaved children who don't have a heart change. I have no desire to raise up hypocrites. I'm much more interested in heart change that will surely result in behavior change. A good spanking should be used to help my kids see how aweful their sin is. After a spanking we always have a talk about how our sin causes pain and they need to be thinking how much pain our sin caused Christ. A spanking should remind the child that they need someone to save them from their sin. It must be used to affect heart change, not just to make them behave the way we want them to.
     
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    [Nevermind. It's an exercise in futility.]
     
    #79 Aaron, Feb 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2009
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I'm sure you meant ebay. That's a great idea! I'll throw in my self-published book on child-rearing: "Scars and Stripes Forever"
     
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