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Nativity Scenes and the Second Commandment
- Thread starter Dale-c
- Start date
The second commandment forbids images and any form of worship that God has not commanded....
Does that allow for images outside of worship of God?
I still believe it is forbidden but not because of the second commandment..... After studying the historical and theological arguments regarding images outside of worship here are my conclusions...
1. We have no idea what Christ looked like, so any image is a false image of him.
2. During the 6th and 7th Century during the Iconoclastic Controversy the decision made by the Iconoclast was that we cannot make an image of Christ because of his Divine Nature. Even if we knew what Christ looked like and was able to paint a picture of him we would be dividing his nature.. Christ is fully God and fully Man. If we paint him we are painting only the man for we can not paint his divine nature thus dividing his nature.
At the very least it is nestorianism and it could also be monophysite...
So it is still forbidden....
That is my two cents for what it is worth....
Does that allow for images outside of worship of God?
I still believe it is forbidden but not because of the second commandment..... After studying the historical and theological arguments regarding images outside of worship here are my conclusions...
1. We have no idea what Christ looked like, so any image is a false image of him.
2. During the 6th and 7th Century during the Iconoclastic Controversy the decision made by the Iconoclast was that we cannot make an image of Christ because of his Divine Nature. Even if we knew what Christ looked like and was able to paint a picture of him we would be dividing his nature.. Christ is fully God and fully Man. If we paint him we are painting only the man for we can not paint his divine nature thus dividing his nature.
At the very least it is nestorianism and it could also be monophysite...
So it is still forbidden....
That is my two cents for what it is worth....
Dale-c said:How can you harmonize the use of nativity scenes with the second commandment?
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
We have a fisher price nativity scene up in our living room and I have yet to see any of my family bowing down in an act of worship by it.
The moment I do, it is gone :saint:
The moment I do, it is gone :saint:
My nativity scene is a reminder of God's greatest gift - it is not an object of worship. Now, my friend, if you are in a habit of worshiping manger scenes, by all means, do not have one in your home. But as for the rest of us who do not worship our manger scenes, would you be so kind as to climb down off our backs?
Dale-c said:How can you harmonize the use of nativity scenes with the second commandment?
Harmonize? Well, first get a base for the scene. Then don't use gold or silver or porcelain, or even wood, that idols have been made from, but use a material simpler, like tin or something. When adding the final touches be careful not to jar any parts, and that would mean walking on all toes when near it. Then, when finished, remember to wash your hands; thoroughly, but not to where the water and soap ran o the basin. There it is; your harmony.
That's quite funny. But (and there's always a but), The lowest male voice is called bass, not base.Alcott said:Harmonize? Well, first get a base for the scene. Then don't use gold or silver or porcelain, or even wood, that idols have been made from, but use a material simpler, like tin or something. When adding the final touches be careful not to jar any parts, and that would mean walking on all toes when near it. Then, when finished, remember to wash your hands; thoroughly, but not to where the water and soap ran o the basin. There it is; your harmony.
One of our family's favorites is the Veggie Tales nativity scene! (Although I'm having a little trouble picturing Larry as a Wise Man.)PastorSBC1303 said:We have a fisher price nativity scene up in our living room and I have yet to see any of my family bowing down in an act of worship by it.
The moment I do, it is gone :saint:
Do you have them at your church?We have a fisher price nativity scene up in our living room and I have yet to see any of my family bowing down in an act of worship by it.
The moment I do, it is gone
I am not climbing on anyones backs. I am asking an honest question.But as for the rest of us who do not worship our manger scenes, would you be so kind as to climb down off our backs?
What if we had a statue of Jesus in our churches all the time?
How about a statue of mary?
The catholics do? WHy shouldn't we?
PastorSBC1303
Active Member
Dale-c said:Do you have them at your church?
Not this year, but we have in the past.
Again, I have yet to see anyone bowing down to worship it.
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
WISE! the man's a vegetable.SBCPreacher said:One of our family's favorites is the Veggie Tales nativity scene! (Although I'm having a little trouble picturing Larry as a Wise Man.)
We have a beautiful nativity scene in our sanctuary - again as a reminder of God's greatest gift. No, we don't take a few minutes in each service to gather around it and worship it.Dale-c said:Do you have them at your church?
Why should we?Dale-c said:WHy shouldn't we?
Now that's funny!North Carolina Tentmaker said:WISE! the man's a vegetable.
Debby in Philly
Active Member
I agree with most replies - worship is what makes an idol. If you can't have nativity scenes that are simply to look at and be reminded of the real meaning of the holiday, then you shouldn't have any art, 3D or 2D, depicting any Biblical figure. Or mabe no pictures or sculptures of family and friends, either.
Seems silly to oppose them in those terms, doesn't it?
There have been those who have taken this extreme position, however. It is probably the reason why non-Catholic traditions have such a great tradition of music, since statues and all other visual art were banned as a reaction to idolatry during the Reformation.
As with most things, a well-thought out policy of neither extreme is probably best.
Seems silly to oppose them in those terms, doesn't it?
There have been those who have taken this extreme position, however. It is probably the reason why non-Catholic traditions have such a great tradition of music, since statues and all other visual art were banned as a reaction to idolatry during the Reformation.
As with most things, a well-thought out policy of neither extreme is probably best.
North Carolina Tentmaker
New Member
I have not seen that applied to manger scenes before. But I do know a guy who thinks if you get a fish mounted on the wall it applies.Ex 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
The New Testament says that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. So while we are not to make an image that represents God and worship it, God has "imaged" himself for us in Jesus and he is our object of worship. As I understand it, Jesus' imaging God is one of the ways he fulfills the OT law. So, we do not offer worship to an image that we make, but it is appropriate to draw an image of Jesus, or shoot a film and have an actor portray Jesus, or have kids color a picture of Jesus, etc. Other images or symbols that remind us of Jesus, such as a cross or an empty tomb are also images that we can use to remind us of Jesus. Also, the Baptist ordinances of baptism and the Lord's supper are symbols to remind us of Christ. I think it is appropriate to benefit from all of these images that God has provided us and I think it is wrong to deny the use of these things and attempt to put NT believers back under the law.The second commandment forbids images and any form of worship that God has not commanded....
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Alcott said:Harmonize? Well, first get a base for the scene. Then don't use gold or silver or porcelain, or even wood, that idols have been made from, but use a material simpler, like tin or something. When adding the final touches be careful not to jar any parts, and that would mean walking on all toes when near it. Then, when finished, remember to wash your hands; thoroughly, but not to where the water and soap ran o the basin. There it is; your harmony.
:applause::applause::applause:
I notice your post has an image of a very adorable girl on it...Dale-c said:How can you harmonize the use of nativity scenes with the second commandment?