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Natural man

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Jul 14, 2006.

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  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    resurrection

    resurrection is a rebirth.

    We must know where Jesus body, the lamb of God, will go.

    Revelation 5:6
    Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

    Revelation 7:9
    After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
    "Salvation belongs to our God,
    who sits on the throne,
    and to the Lamb." 11All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying:
    "Amen!
    Praise and glory
    and wisdom and thanks and honor
    and power and strength
    be to our God for ever and ever.
    Amen!"

    Revelation 22
    The River of Life
    1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

    We will always for eternity to be dependant upon the lamb of God.

    To God the flesh counts for nothing, we are nothing like the lamb of God, we will be given a new body within a twinkle of an eye.

    A spiritual body that does not come from the natural one, but from God.

    The lamb of God has His place and we have ours.

    Just there is a natural body thier is a spiritual body.

    Lets learn from the great teacher, my God and my Saviour.

    Matthew 9:17
    Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."

    Mark 2:22
    And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins."

    Luke 5:37
    And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined.
     
    #41 psalms109:31, Jul 17, 2006
  2. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    resurection

    The new body I will see one day, but it is not this one that comes from the world, but will come from my Father who is in heaven
     
    #42 psalms109:31, Jul 17, 2006
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    KJMatt.17

    "1": And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    "2": And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    "3": And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    "4": Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

    Wonder how they knew it was Moses and Elias?
     
    #43 Brother Bob, Jul 17, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    The power to make it over new will come from the Father.

    Careful or you be like the Saddicees who didn't believe in a resurrection.
     
    #44 Brother Bob, Jul 17, 2006
  5. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I think this means that Jesus was transformed but he still had a body that had substance.I don't think Jesus would tell Thomas to touch the wounds if they weren't there, do you? Jesus also ate.

    Jesus walked on the road to Emmaus with the 2 disciples and they just thought he was another person. He did not appear like a spirit to them. They did not recognize him because Jesus veiled his identity until they broke bread.

    Also, it's common for people to say Jesus walked through walls but the Bible does not say that. It just says the door was locked. He could have supernaturally unlocked it. Jesus would have no problem with that. No need to walk through walls.

    Is it so hard to believe that God can resurrect and transform our physical bodies (even if burned or mutiliated or torn apart by sharks) into glorified resurrected bodies? I don't find it hard to beleive this at all. He created the universe from nothing - come on, folks! :)
     
    #45 Marcia, Jul 17, 2006
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Yea, come on and preach a resurrection!!!

    You either believe in a resurrection or you believe as the Sadducees

    386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again. 1454. egersis eg'-er-sis from 1453; a resurgence (from death):--resurrection.
    1815. exanastasis ex-an-as'-tas-is from 1817; a rising from death:--resurrection.
     
    #46 Brother Bob, Jul 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2006
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    You are denying scripture. Go back and read the passages brother Bob posted.

    You are not getting another body but the same one that will be transformed, as Jesus' body was. This is what scripture teaches.

    Redemption is redemption of the whole person -- body/mind/spirit (I believe soul and spirit are the same but let's not get into that or maybe you can say mind and emotions=soul). We are first spiritually redeemed upon faith in Christ and are made a new creature. Do you believe that? Did you become someone else? I didn't. I'm still Marcia. I did not suddenly become Jane Smith.

    Just as we were made into new creatures but are the same person when saved, so will our bodies be transformed into new spiritual bodies yet be the same bodies. They will be different than they are now but it will still be our bodies.

    God is more than able to redeem the physical and says he will.
     
    #47 Marcia, Jul 17, 2006
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    scripture

    The scripture teaches we will return to the dust.

    God resurrecting us in the same corrupt dust is your interpretation.

    Resurrecting in the new body does not deny resurrection it confirms it.

    Transfigure is talking about the Spiritual body, and yes the inward man will be shown by the outward, we will not be changed in looks and appearance.

    We both agree it is not the same body, if it is not the same then it does not come from the same material.

    I was taught about the dust thing to when I was a kid, but it doesn’t pan out to the truth.

    Spiritual body and the natural body is not the same and never was the same.

    People always think worldly instead of heavenly
     
    #48 psalms109:31, Jul 18, 2006
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    God resurrects us from the dust, the same way He created Adam in the first place (who was created to live...not die).
     
    #49 webdog, Jul 18, 2006
  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    sin condemned

    Jesus has condemned sin in flesh, this dust is corrupted. I can't wait for the new body and it is not like this one, and it is not from this dust.

    This body is destroyed and will return to which it came.

    Spiritual body and the natural body is not the same.

    I haven't seen anything that points other wise.

    This body to God counts for nothing,but men hold it such great reguard.
     
    #50 psalms109:31, Jul 18, 2006
  11. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    God resurrects and transforms the same bodies we have now. They are transformed. Maybe you are having trouble understanding "transformed?" It is the same body but it's transformed so it is no longer exactly the same body.

    I think you are having trouble understanding the word "resurrection" as well. If it is not the same body, it is not a resurrection. Resurrecting means to bring back (the same thing).

    The resurrection of the body of Jesus is the model for our bodily resurrections to come. He was sinless but had a fully human body that suffered thirst, hunger, and fatigue. He also aged: he grew from an infant to a man. This mean he was in aging body. His body was beaten and he had scars from the nails.

    If you understand being born again makes us a new creature yet we are the same person, then you should apply this to the bodily resurrection.

    Believing that God cannot transform our present bodies is Gnostic - you are making the physical evil and unable to be redeemed. But God does say in scripture clearly that he will redeem us bodily. If God can transform us spiritually, he can transform us physically. And He will.

    Also see 1 Cor. 15.42 and following. It is clearly teaching that the mortal body itself is raised an imperishable, immortal body.
     
    #51 Marcia, Jul 18, 2006
  12. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Body

    Where you fail to understad in what I am saying in being transformed our old body is destroyed and we are given a new one.

    The natural body and the Spiritual body is not the same and never was.

    Take off the old put on the new.

    It is changing cloths. It will happen in a blink of an eye.

    You can't say it is the same body because it isn't never was.

    Why can't you understand being transformed is from the natural body into the Spiritual body. Doesn't mean it is the same or was, but is saying they are not the same.

    Flesh has been condemned, there is nothing going to save it.

    What God is saving is not your body but your soul.

    Your flesh to God counts for nothing

    We are receiving the goal of our faith, not the salvation of the body, but the soul.
     
    #52 psalms109:31, Jul 18, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Because it would not be a resurrection psalm;
     
    #53 Brother Bob, Jul 18, 2006
  14. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    resurrection

    Resurrection is a new birth.

    Being reborn into a new body is resurrection.

    We must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God.

    The resurection of our soul, does not need the old body, but the new Spiritual body, for the natural has been destroyed.
     
    #54 psalms109:31, Jul 18, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Soul has already been resurrected, body will be too in the resurrection, last day.
    You do err and what you say is not a resurrection. You need to talk to your Pastor.

    The following is the definition given for a resurrection in Greek.

    386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again. 1454. egersis eg'-er-sis from 1453; a resurgence (from death):--resurrection.
    1815. exanastasis ex-an-as'-tas-is from 1817; a rising from death:--resurrection.
    __________________
     
    #55 Brother Bob, Jul 18, 2006
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Resurrection is not being reborn into a new body! It's raising the old one and transforming it. Transforming the same body does not mean brand new.

    Was Jesus resurrected? Yes, and he did not get a new body; it was the same body transformed. Do you not understand that his resurrection is a model for us?

    You say the flesh was condemned, but the whole point of 1 Cor 15 is that God redeems the physical body. You say the flesh means nothing to God and you are ignoring the Bible. God created our bodies and he will redeem them.

    If you are in a Baptist church, which I assume you are since you are posting here, you need to check this out because what you are saying here does not match Baptist (or essential Christian) doctrine. You should check out the meaning of resurrection and redemption.
     
    #56 Marcia, Jul 18, 2006
  17. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Resurection

    Jesus was resurrected in the same body and was raised into heaven

    Lazarus was resurrected and died again

    The difference is Jesus body never sinned and sin was never condemned in it.

    Lazarus body was still going to be destroyed because of sin.

    Our sin is condemned in our flesh and it will be destroyed with the rest of the world.

    The only body from here will be Jesus's.

    Since our bodies have been destroyed we will be given new one's a Spiritual body.

    The new body is and never was the old natural body.

    I see being resurrected in the new body is what the scripture teaches, even the one's you have shown.

    It is a new wine skin, you do not make the new from the old.

    Why do you all continue to believe God is going to make the new old out of corrupted dust?

    Take off one and put on another, it will be changed in blink of an eye.

    I'm looking forward to the new body, the new wine skin.

    It is the souls God is saving, men continue to worry about something God considers dead
     
    #57 psalms109:31, Jul 19, 2006
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    The fact that Jesus never sinned does not have to do with his body. You seem to think sin is in our physical bodies, but Jesus said that one can lust in their heart (which also means mind).

    So being sinless has nothing to do with the fact that Jesus bodily arose. We will also have the resurrection of the same bodies, as Jesus did. They will be transformed into spiritual bodies, as Jesus' was.

    What you are saying is a serious error.
     
    #58 Marcia, Jul 19, 2006
  19. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    scripture

    Romans 8:3
    For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    Our flesh is paying the penalty of a believers sin, returning to the world in which it came destroyed and we will be given a new one. The sin still resides in the flesh because Jesus condemned the sin in the flesh.

    Resurrecting our soul into the new body.

    Our soul at the end of the race will win the prize the salvation of the soul.

    If we are resurrecting in this same body then we will be like lazarus, waiting for death again.

    We are not like Jesus who never sinned.

    The natural body and the Spiritual body is like the wine skin.

    The new wine skin will not be made from the same material!!!
     
    #59 psalms109:31, Jul 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2006
  20. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    "condemned" in this context means to "weaken its influence over" or "to take away its condemning power". Sin is being "condemned", not the "flesh"; thus we may "walk according to the Spirit" (8:4)

    Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. If you claim the flesh is paying the penalty, then you must be saying each believer is paying the penalty for his own sins; you cannot separate a person's physical body and their soul/spirit in such a way. Again, what you are proclaiming is a dualism similar to the ancient heretic Marcion.

    No, we will be like Jesus and His resurrected, glorified human body.

    But we will be conformed to the image of Jesus at the resurrection. It will be like we had never sinned, because we will be clothed in His righteousness.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, Jesus is speaking of a new convenant in the context of John 2. He is not speaking of resurrected bodies.

    I have read much of what you have posted this past couple of weeks. In Christian love I must tell you that your theology is thoroughly polluted with serious deception.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #60 canadyjd, Jul 19, 2006
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