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Need ruling on works vs grace and deadly sins

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Shivan, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Shivan

    Shivan New Member

    Aug 28, 2003
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    I sometimes talk on a college message board. One guy wrote in asking for advice about his girlfriend. She is deeply religious (baptist). He is not very active in the church, but believes in God and thinks that people who do good things should get into Heaven. One night they were arguing whether doing good works is enough, or if it must be good works "through Jesus". So my first question is, what's the difference? If you're a Christian, aren't all your good deeds for Jesus? And does good works matter at all?

    He also wondered how it could be possible that, hypothetically, he could kill 20 people, and then just change his life and be saved. I told him that all sins are equal (is that right?) and that even murder can be repented. Another user, a Catholic, agreed that mass murder can be forgiven, but took issue with the degree of sins. He quoted 1 John 5:16-17 in saying that deadly sins do exist. He then said that any serious transgression done willingly can be a deadly sin (and needs to be confessed to a priest). Don't Baptists have a very different idea of what a deadly sin is and its consequences?
  2. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Oct 7, 2000
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    Dr. Bob and a few others will be able to answer this better than me; I only offer these thoughts:

    Ephesians 2:8-10
    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    We don't do good works for Jesus or through Jesus; when we are truly saved, we do good works because of Jesus.

    As for the hypothetical: What? This guy doesn't believe people can be forgiven? He'd prefer to hang something over someone's head forever? I'm glad he's not God.

    Murder or stealing a piece of candy, doesn't matter if you do either: you've broken the law. The punishments set by men for these two things are different, and that's where we need to remember: God has only one punishment for sin, and that's hell. Praise God that He became flesh and gave Himself that we might have pardon from sin!
  3. donnA

    donnA New Member

    Aug 10, 2000
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    No good works, by quanity or quality can ever be enough for heaven. Only Jesus is enough. Our good works come after salvation because of who Jesus is and because of our salvation. Good works without a relationship with Jesus are filthy rags, and you always throw out filthy rags, they are good for nothing.
    When a person is saved, when they repent, all their past sins are forgiven. The blood of Jesus is sufficent to cleanse any sin stain we have. The bible says Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, we do not make a new mediator for ourselves and go to a priest, the bible sasy if you are saved, you are a priest of God, a royal priesthood, we need only to confess our sins to God, becasue of Jesus we can go straight to Him.
  4. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

    Aug 27, 2002
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    i believe the deadly sins referred to are those for which god may kill a christian, both to keep him from sinning more and as a warning to other believers. salvation is not affected.
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Jun 26, 2003
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    Ephesians 2:8.9 says, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

    Titus 3:5-7, "He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

    1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Mark 2:7," "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"

    The book of James talks about the difference between a creedal faith and a genuine saving faith. A creedal faith is written on a page and is a statement of what someone says they believe. But a genuine saving faith is written in the hearts of those who believe. That kind of saving faith is accompanied by good works that stem from a genuine faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The good works alone do not save a person. Faith does not stand alone. It is followed by works of some kind. A person who has faith in Christ demonstrates that faith by action. The action being a trust in Christ alone. When I trust Christ it means that I put my complete trust in Him. Works do not precede faith. Faith in Christ precedes good works. Good deeds are nothing more than that. They have no saving power. It is a genuine faith in Christ that saves.

    In James 1:21 it says, Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls." The word save is talking about our very being. When we are saved we are not only saved from the eternal hell but also from this very way of living. The scripture says that walking with God will add years to your life. When we are saved every ounce of us is saved from this world and its judgment. We are in essence saved temporally and eternally. Our mind and body and everything about us is saved today, waiting for that eternal hope of salvation in Jesus Christ when we are with him in heaven.

    Hebrews 11:6, "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a reader of those who seek Him."

    Faith is defined in Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

    When we have faith in Christ it means that we are trusting Christ for our salvation and in daily living. We trust Him every step of the way. If God can create this world he can certainly make things happen.

    If good works could get you to heaven how any would you have to do?

    Romans 3:10, "as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one;"

    There are none who are righteous apart from Christ; not even one person.

    Romans 4:3-6, "For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:"

    Philippians 3:7-12, "More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus."

    In John 14:6 Jesus said, "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

    In 1 John 5:16, 17, The sin leading to death is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is what Judas Iscariot did. He turned his back on God and paid the ultimate temporal and eternal price. He is no doubt in hell and died at his own hands.