Featured .needs help

You say it depends on context, yet I am not the one ignoring context. I can understand seeing generalities and figures of speech based on your doctrine, but I have shown you that is not always the case.

God has called men everywhere to repent. Yet you are saying God has not called all men to repentance. It is not just a matter of all places, but that is a universal command to all men. And just as you have been shown that even in the Old Testament this same principle was in place, it is even more true today with the Revelation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now, you are given again the chance to address this Scripture:


Acts 17:29-31

King James Version (KJV)

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.


In view is the Economies prior to the revelation of the Gospel. We have seen that the gospel of prior economies went out to the whole world before, and while you mike take a general approach, you cannot do that here, because it is sent to all men, everywhere, and the reason is because the whole world will be judged.

Who is left out of that judgment?


See believers distinguished from unbelievers here:


1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


Now see a generality: God is the Savior of the whole world. That does not mean all people will be saved, it simply shows that the world has opportunity to be saved by the Savior...God.

Especially to those that are saved.

And just as God has done in times past, He has given men all men revelation to an extent that they will not have an excuse. That doesn't mean every man everywhere hears the Gospel, but all men everywhere will hear...from God.

And that is what this forum primarily is for you, it seems, a club where you can defend your friends. Great. Now try defending the Gospel.

The one you are teaching has God perfectly content that men be eternally separated. The one Paul taught shows that God is just and gives opportunity to every man to obey. That is seen to be true...throughout the Bible.

It is a caricature of God that has God to be a tyrant, a respecter of persons. Many examples of God's love to the world have been given, and not once have you, or your buddies...actually addressed those issues. You have simply presented apologetics for what I guess you feel defends Calvinism.

I will no longer use this thread as an example of the evasion of issue that was the problem in the first thread...that has been made clear enough already.

Neo-orthodox? No...ancient. And I have shown that in the posts, and would just recommend, if doctrine becomes the issue, instead of personality conflict, that you go through them again and just notice the issues that have been avoided.


God bless.

 

In setting out to satisfy the goad to your pride, you have made yourself the example, my friend.

If you want to have a serious discussion, then you will need to put a little more effort into it than you do at present time.

I spent quite a bit of time, time I will never have back, tracking down the quotes in your post, and while I did so, you have stolen time from me that, as I said, I will never get back.

In the future, stop robbing your antagonists, and do them the courtesy of properly quoting procedure. I have shown you at least three times that this is very simple, and still you do not do it.

If you want to be taken seriously, then you need to begin to address the posts, instead of your wounded pride.


God bless.

 

[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I appreciate you remaking my points.

Keep up the good work.


God bless.

 

Again, here is what is being discussed, in both threads:

I guess the OP may have had an intent of raising the question, the magic bullet as to God hating some, and loving only the Elect. In the responses given, no-one has successfully dismantled Scripture's very simple message...God loves the world.

The OP in this thread abandoned what was never even approached in the last thread (found here for those who want to track this discussion) in favor of seeking to embarrass someone.

How's that going for you, my friend?


God bless.

 

Not sure how responding to the question would be considered high-jacking, lol.

I'm sure you can rationalize that for yourself, just don't think that anyone else will.

And don't forget, you still have the burden of responding to the posts I have done in this thread as well. I have shown that your quoting etiquette is sloppy and how that affects a discussion, so I do not to give more example of that. So have fun "quoting" the other thread, just remember...you still need to address the ones in this thread, lol.


God bless.

 

Not only is the quoting so sloppy that no-one knows who said what, which is how you manage to maintain a charade of actually responding, you think offering more commentary changes the address you received.

Learn to quote, Iconoclast, you owe it to those on this forum, and you owe it to yourself, but most importantly...you owe it to God.

He did not die for you that you could be an example of emotional turmoil and sloth for the world to see.


God bless.

 

It's not just about quoting procedure, Iconoclast, and you know it.

That is an important aspect of it, but there is also the issues of proper response which entails...our attitude and conduct.

And when those issues over-shadow the Doctrine of the Bible in our lives...we excuse ourselves as useful witnesses for Christ. And have become of those seeking self glory, because we make ourselves the central focus rather than Christ, and that is our goal.

If you can read this thread and not see it is about you, or even about me, then you are missing what few others are.


God bless.

 

Would this be a bad time to point out that the title is forever fixed" Needs Help. Iconoclast."

Just trying to help, Iconoclast, really.

One day you might understand that better.


God bless.

 

God has commanded all people everywhere to repent.

God has commanded all people everywhere to repent and believe. But He gives faith and repentance to those of His special choosing.

You are reading things into the text that are not there. There is no mention of "opportunity to be saved" in the text. There is no potentiality there.

The Lord is indeed the Savior of believers. But His Saviorhood is not salvific towards non-believers --the non-elect.

John Owen, the well-known Puritan said that God the Father has a general protecting providence over all --this applies to the non-believer where God the Father is the Preservor. But with respect to the Church He is indeed their Savior.

I can agree with much of the above --but with an exception to "will hear from God." Nature is a witness to God as the Creator. The conscience of everyone is from God and is a testament from Him. Things like that. But there is no word from God to many in the past, present and future. These "testimonies" are not enough to save anyone.

That is your tradtion speaking --not God's Word. He is not an equal-opportunity Kind of God.

It's very clear that you are the one mischaracterizing a plethora of times.

 

Luke 5:31-33

King James Version (KJV)

31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


And the emphasis is even stronger with the Gospel being the revelation provided men.

How has God commanded all men everywhere to repent if they have not heard?


Romans 10:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


What does this mean?

All people?

Or just the Elect from all people.

That is not why Christ came.

Again, that is post-salvific, when we have a context of believing unto the saving of the soul.

In view, though, is pre-salvific, and how salvation comes about.

I don't have to read that into it, it's right there:


1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


Your denial implies that Paul is in error in saying this.

Not what Paul states:

1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


It is basic principle that God is the Savior. While I agree He is not Savior salvifically to unbelievers in a post-salvation context, that does not change the fact He is Savior of the entire world.

And again, Paul contrasts post and pre salvation with "specially."

Irrelevant.

All men benefit from the grace of God, for if nothing else that He does not destroy them immediately.

But He is longsuffering toward us because He is not willing that any should perish.

No way to change this to "He is willing that some perish."

The purpose of all revelation is that man might know God and that they are to be in obedience to Him. That is why Paul states no man will have an excuse.

But He is.

He always provided all men the opportunity for obedience, and expressed His will through revelation.

Okay.


God bless.

 

It seems the Moderator that did that is both patient with those who feel they can disregard the rules, as well as a person of extremely honed discernment.

Which was probably gained through Bible Study.

There's two lessons in that, Iconoclast.


God bless.

 

Your quoting messed up the large print. Could you correct that?


God bless.