New Wine in an Old Wineskin

I'm probably not the one to ask, but really what have you been trying to get at? Over many post you keep saying you're born again (which if the case I'm excited for you) however, there seems to be a lot of rationalization about choices you've made. We've all had hard times and made mistakes. We are relieved that Jesus forgives us and grants us grace and opportunities for a better next time. The point of salvation is not only to give us eternal lives but to make us new creatures where we fight against poor choices and sin. However, none of us say we are right when we do wrong none of us justifies it. We repent (which means totally turning around and telling God you're right, we're wrong.) I believe in grace and mercy and it should bestowed on all we meet. it doesn't mean that everything is ok or there aren't consequenses for sin. I don't want to go attack you. However, I will not agree bad choices are good. You're post are kind of confussing because I don't know if you trying to get people to agree with you or to sympathize or to attempt to show us the error of our ways but it seems you're trying to get at something.

 

I like the illustration of the lad pouring the old milk in a new bowl. On the rest, I have no comment except to suggest you purchase this book. It will help you tremendously to rightly understand the Christian walk and change.

The Fight by John A White, InterVarsity Press. It is inexpensive and availble on the net for about ten dollars in paperback.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

Why is being a Christian superior? Why would one want to be saved? You are a Child of the Lord. What does that mean to you? What is the purpose of Relationship with the Lord? Why does Paul rejoice when he said he can suffer? Why Does Paul say in Romans with regard to living life as you want that "God Forbid?" I like the Newsboys but what is the point of being a Christian? To live guilt free or to be guilt free?

 

Or simply, don't pour the old milk in the new milk and expect good tasting food. There is a reason the new wine is poured into the new cask.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Superwoman, I appreciate all you have gone through but I am afraid you are missing the point of the parable of the wineskins badly.

Like all parables there are several things to learn here, but one of them is not to discard the traditions or old ways. The old ways, the old wine, and the old bottles should be preserved, look at verse 38.

When a new believer comes to Christ and they are filled with a new spirit, if we take that new believer and subject them to your dreaded lists of rules, if we turn the wonderful grace they have discovered (or more accurately has discovered them), if we turn that grace into legalism or ritual then the bottles will burst and both the bottles and the wine shall perish. I think you are in agreement with me on that. Christians need to grow in grace and only with time comes understanding.

The other side of that argument is that you don’t take old bottles, or old garments and try to mend their holes with new cloth. You want to challenge the religious establishment, I understand that. You said:

That is not what this parable says. While we should not attempt to conform the new believer to the same standard as the old believers neither should we pour out the old wine. Look at verse 39. The old ways are better, and once the new believer grows in Christ they will understand that. The gospel of Jesus Christ is not new or hip. It doesn’t need praise bands or coffee cups. It is unchanged since handed to us by the sacrifice of Christ himself. You can dress it up however you want, it is relevant, it does matter, but it is also unchanged.

Don’t let the religious establishment crush your youthful enthusiasm, but also don’t let your enthusiasm supplant wisdom. God does not change with our culture and while our presentation might, our message must not. You want to use praise music and coffee to spread the gospel, that's great, go for it. But make sure that you have not changed the gospel itself. Sin is still sin and to follow Christ is still a call to holiness.

 

Is there something wrong with this thread techincally not discussion?

 

Something is haywire here! I posted twice and only one post shows, Ansni posted once and it came up 3 times..The final post shows on the list, but doesn't come up at all..........

Cheers,

Jim

Wait,,now they show up........................

 

Scripture does say that two things are better than one,,,,,,,,,,,,,but I don't recall ever reading three.....lol

Cheers,

Jim

 

I disagree that rules are driving people away from Christianity. While some churches may seem to have rules (I would think they would probably be more the small town and rural pentecostal type churches or maybe some extreme fundamentalist churches), most churches do not have "rules." My church doesn't, nor do any of my supporting churches (churches that help support my ministry). I speak in a lot of churches all over, and have never encountered a church with rules. The idea that Christianity has rules is a misperception sometimes brought on by a bad church or by a person who uses this as an excuse to not go to church.

I think the main problem with churches today is that they are not preaching the gospel; they are preaching watered down stuff or feel good stuff. Eventually, people realize they can get that elsewhere - no need to go to church for it. This is why the mainline denominations are losing people. When you are so much like the world, why not just choose the world?

 

Superwoman8977 wrote:
"Pastor went on to comment that churches are experiencing a decline in church membership since 1990. And when he asked why it was amazing at how many people said because Christianity in general has turned into a list of rules. Its like we have skeedaddled right past who the focus needs to be on and instead focused on the "rules". I know I am not a conservative person by any means but I also know that if we want others to come back to the Lord its not about the sin as people keep throwing at me, but its about getting to their level. We have to abandon the close-mindedness and instead open our minds to change --- There are times when I am reading the posts in here and I am like wow I so have another opinion on this, I so see another way..am I wrong, no I am not if we all thought the same way, the work of the Lord would never get done."



I understand what you are saying, but I can not find any scripture that would suggest that we are to change or even water down the characteristics of living a Christian life.
There is no advantage in changing how we as Christians should behave, into a behavior that allows others to be comfortable in choosing to live in an unChristlike manner.
We should not condemn them either.
We should be encouraging them to join us as heirs of the Kingdom of God.

If we (Christians) change our behavior so as to blend in with the world, how would those in need of salvation be able to tell that the one and only way to receive salvation be on a different path than what the world is offering them now?

Becoming a Christian IS all about change. We have become heirs in the Kingdom of God thru his son Jesus Christ. We are also commissioned as ambassadors of His Kingdom to spread his word so that others can choose to join. Being a Christian is not about this short time in this world, but it is about spending eternity with our Lord.

Paul wrote that he must put aside this world daily. I seem to have the need to do this hourly. (at least)

I know from experience that changing behavior can be difficult but God has promised us that we will not be tempted greater than we can overcome. God also says He will provide an escape from temptation if only we will use His strength when we are weak.
God forgives us each time we wander and come back. God wants us to ask forgiveness of our sins, not because he does not know what we do,(we are already forgiven) but because God wants us to understand what we are doing.

Our choice to continue to do the same sins over and over does come with consequence. I have learned that each time I ask God for that strength to overcome temptation, God provides. The more I ask for His strength, the easier it is to overcome and it seems that I suffer that temptation less often.

God is the same yesterday as He is today and will be tomorrow. God is constant and consistent in a very inconsistent world.

I pray for your familiar struggle, I hope you do not find this post in a negative way but I pray that you see I write from experience. My experience may not be like yours but to me it was ever bit as traumatic.

Change can only be made with God's strength; use it; He wants you too.

 

So someone else here listens to Paul Washer sermons too.