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Nichols and the Death Penalty

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Apr 1, 2004.

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  1. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    JM, I don't know about Texas, but in Oklahoma we pump the juice into doctors that are accused of murder, too. Our state has "equal opportunity" justifiable homicide.

    As a PI, if someone pulls a weapon on me, I can unload on him just the same, whether he is Donald Trump or a homeless bum. You must have different laws in Texas. "Thou shalt not arrest the rich." :eek:
     
    #41 Phillip, Apr 7, 2004
  2. Gayla

    Gayla New Member

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    Phillip,
    I'll do my best to tell what I can . . .
     
    #42 Gayla, Apr 7, 2004
  3. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Daniel david, I do not read anything from max Lucado, thank you very much. You seem to have a problem dealing with a brother that you disagree with. I twisted nothing, you may be I am not.

    Phillip, You might want to read the history of this country again. The colonies were under the control of England, and the control was here, also, not just in England.

    For Both Phillip and Daniel David:

    Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?


    Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.


    Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.     And they went to another village.
     
    #43 Jailminister, Apr 8, 2004
  4. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Thank you JM. That has nothing to do with capital punishment. You also fail to recognize the historical truth of what was going on. Christ was introducing his law (not the same as Moses'). Under Moses, such a practice would have been fine. Under the New Covenant, we are not to take the lives of false teachers. Hey, I am just trying to help you out of shadow.
     
    #44 Daniel David, Apr 8, 2004
  5. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    DD, Physician heal thyself.

    What you have said has nothing to do with the endorsement of capital Punishment by Jesus or Paul.

    It is the condition of the heart as Jesus said in the above Luke passage.

    You must first come out of a shadow. WWJD.
     
    #45 Jailminister, Apr 8, 2004
  6. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Okay JM, let me play out your little absurd idea:

    Peter approaches a Roman official (who had the authority to take one's life) and swings his sword at him.

    Peter misses Malcus' neck, but lobs the poor guys ear off.

    Jesus rebukes him by saying that if he takes a life, his life will be taken.

    According to you, Jesus didn't really mean that. Sorry JM, but you have utterly and completely failed in understanding what Christ said, what Paul said, and the nature of submission to Government. Then again, did I expect any different? Not a chance.
     
    #46 Daniel David, Apr 8, 2004
  7. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    The pompous and condescending attitude found in some of the replies on this thread is absolutely sickening.

    BTW, I am for the death penalty. I believe it is supported biblically.
     
    #47 Gershom, Apr 8, 2004
  8. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Gershom said
    I agree.

    Daniel david, Apparently you have no understanding of what Jesus meant by that. If a person decides to live a life that is contrary to do right then it will ultimately result in the persons demise. That demise does not mean death at the habds of the executioner. It is not endorsing Capital Punishment. Luke 9 passage takes care of that. Jesus is not for destroying lives.

    Anyway We will just have to disagree on this issue. I pray there will be many other issues we can agree on.

    Take care and have a good weekend celebrating the Resurrection of Christ.
     
    #48 Jailminister, Apr 9, 2004
  9. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    Jesus was not talking about a life that would not be as fulfilled. Peter tried to take a man's life, not simply make him miserable.

    Jailminister reads where Peter lobbed off Malcus' ear. JM then interprets that to mean that Peter stole 5 pigs and 3 sheep to make Malcus' life more difficult.

    Absolutely hilarious.
     
    #49 Daniel David, Apr 9, 2004
  10. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    DD, I have tried to be pleasant in my dealings with you, but your hard hearted responses have showed your lack of compassion and understanding. If that is the way you desire to live then so be it.

    Again have a good easter week end
     
    #50 Jailminister, Apr 9, 2004
  11. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    JM, I humbly submit to you that this is a "debate" forum where we are allowed to express our opinion and often those opinions "sting", especially when we do not see eye-to-eye with the person who we are debating with.

    In order to "survive" in this area of the board you must distance yourself and your emotions from your beliefs and try to debate based on presenting "facts".

    Just because someone answers strongly and will not come over to your side because you present your side, does not mean that they have a "hard heart".

    You have been around for a while and you should be aware of this. Newbys may not understand this and often get their feelings hurt the first time someone crosses their opinion. They either learn to deal with it and become good debators or they drop out and go somewhere to pout.

    I state very clearly that the Bible indeed presents the death penalty for taking a human life and I do have problems with the way it is used in America.

    Let me explain:

    1) The trial should be close to the crime and punishment swift, or the deterant effect weighs less on other criminals.

    2) The punishment should be made more public. In countries with swift and public executions crime is MUCH lower.

    3) Yes, God can rehabilitate any person He wishes, but we as Christians are not to be stupid about it either. If a child-molester comes to your church saying that he is "saved" and "rehabilitated" then you are stupid if you take him in without watching him. Now, do NOT misquote me. Bringing the child-molester into the church under these conditions is great and wonderful. I personally, would assign a deacon to him who escorts him whereever he goes in the church and sits with him during church services and classes. (I know of a church where a convicted child molester runs the TV ministry and is not watched---he did not become a "Christian" until he was caught. He used that issue heavily in his defense before sentencing.)

    If a criminal is sincere about turning their life over to the Lord, they will NOT have a problem with being escorted and allowing the church to know about their past; if they are NOT sincere, then most of the time they try to hide it. I have found this out from experience.

    I sat two hours in court yesterday watching a guy explain how he justified hitting his pregnant girl-friend. To the average person on the street, he was extremely believable. Luckily, the judge had seen enough of this to recognize it immediately. He allowed the man to ramble on so that he could not come back on the judge and say that he wasn't given his fair say.

    As I said before, all too often the prisoners are turned into the victims -- a great defense. ;)
     
    #51 Phillip, Apr 9, 2004
  12. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Gershom, This board IS a "debate" board. It often requires that a person "qualify" themselves when they post in order to get their point across. Many replies in many of these threads may sound pompous and condescending, but I humbly submit to you that this is the nature of the beast, when you bring emotional issues forward for debate. Yes, you have to be tough skinned to hang-around and not feel slighted, but once a person seperates emotion from the subject being debated, a lot can be learned and it is actually quite fun. [​IMG]
     
    #52 Phillip, Apr 9, 2004
  13. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    I understand the nature of debate, thank you.

    Why not just affirm the truth set in Scripture and lay off the snide remarks? Why accuse an opponent of relying on his Max Lucado commentaries? Does this person want the other to learn, or does he want to ridicule and display his own supposed superior understanding of the matter?

    That's because they are, in fact. I am no stranger to the BB. There are a handful of members who have a reputation of being less than edifying in their replies.

    It's not a matter of being "tough-skinned" or allowing "emotions" to get in the way. Just simply don't do it.
     
    #53 Gershom, Apr 9, 2004
  14. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Phillip, I have NO problem with debate. However , DD cross the line when accuses me of being a weak christian in need of the "light". Debate in it's best form should be civil. I have tried to maintain this in this thread. I do understand that Capital Punishment is a question that has been much debated and will not be solved in this thread. I do believe that Christians can disagree without being attack and degraded.

    Now as far as the death penalty goes, is because it has been abused and used improperly. Example, in the 1800 and 1900's blacks were given capital punishment just because they looked at a white person. There have been people killed due to jury tampering. People have been executed then found out later they were innoncent. I know there are cases, such as Charles Manson, where he was "worthy" of the death penalty, but he got life. As long as he still has life there is a chance that he may change. These are my opinion, but it is based on biblical principles.
     
    #54 Jailminister, Apr 9, 2004
  15. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I must say that I do agree with you if the situations you cite are indeed the case (and of course they were). It would not be right to execute a black person for looking at a white person, no matter what their motives. That is simply wrong...and I agree from that perspective.

    I also agree that jury tamper has and will occur. We live in an imperfect system because American's (like all humans) are imperfect.

    In general, however, I think our justice system has evolved into a system that does a reasonable job in exacting punishment to those that deserve it and I also feel if there is a lack of justice, sometimes it may be that punishment is not taken seriously by the court-system until a person has actually killed or raped somebody for the second or maybe even the third time.

    My guess is that we are probably pretty much in agreement on these issues. If I have said something to you that has been perceived as a personal attack, I personally appologize and ask you for forgiveness. It is truly easier on a BB to be blunt and insensitive to others than it is to sit and debate to their face. [​IMG]
     
    #55 Phillip, Apr 9, 2004
  16. Jailminister

    Jailminister New Member

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    Thanks for the kind reply Phillip and I do believe we agree on the main things and probably the most things.

    My point has always been that death is final.
     
    #56 Jailminister, Apr 9, 2004
  17. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Can't disagree with that....once done there is no going back!
     
    #57 Phillip, Apr 9, 2004
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