No Cross? No problem!

I can say then that we are pretty much in full agreement.

Babies are not guilty of wilful sin as the capacity to will and discern good vs. evil has not fully developed within them. The long-term outcome however is inevitable.

Also we agree that Christ while here in the days of His flesh was subject to all of our human infirmities, hunger, thirst, weariness, etc. - apart from sin.

HankD

 

:thumbs:......

 

We are getting closer now. You agree that the scriptures show Jesus's flesh exactly like ours. Only because he suffered the same infirmities as us could he relate and feel mercy toward us.
But you must still decide if this is what is called "sin nature". I do not like this term, as I cannot conceive of Jesus having a sin nature. I prefer the term used by scripture itself, "flesh". Jesus was born flesh. The flesh cannot be sin because it has no will, it cannot make decisions, it has only lusts and desires. The flesh can draw or pull at the soul of man (James 1:12-15), but only the soul with it's will and intellect can make a choice or decision to sin.
If you agree with this, then you must agree we are not born sinners, but only born flesh with a propensity to sin.

Augustine (and Calvin) taught that sin itself was passed through the flesh. This is not possible, as sin is a moral entity, not physical.

The scriptures also teach that we receive our soul and spirit from God, not our parents. We are made upright, our souls and spirit are pure until they allow themselves to be drawn away and enticed, seduced by the lusts and desires of the flesh. It is only when the soul allows itself to be seduced by the flesh that lust conceives and brings forth sin (James 1:15), which brings forth death.
Jesus did not obey the lust of his flesh, and therefore never sinned.

 

Winman, please check out my thread "Sin Nature". Thanks.

 

His death took care of sin, death and the curse which affects Charlie.

 

Well I guess I wrongly assumed that being death is the wages of sin and that is what God said would happen upon sinning if it was a sin to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that death is what we are saved from. And if eternal life is the gift of God then we must be saved for life.

Also if the following two verses are true which I believe are then Enoch and Elijah also died which I also believe.
Rom. 5:12,14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

Why was it necessary for Jesus to be raised from the dead? What would be the outlook for David the king who had Uriah the Hittite killed because he coveted his wife? What about Charlie and what he has to look forward to?

 

Sinners need salvation. Sinners are guilty of sinning. Have I once stated Charlie was guilty?

In the thread I started I showed how all creation will have the veil of sin lifted because of Christ's death. When was the last time you saw a tree have faith, or was deemed a sinner?

 

To defeat death.

Not sure what you are asking. Are you asking if they will be separated or in union with God for eternity? If the latter, it's a yes to both.

 

What is the purpose of this statement by Jesus the Christ if this baby and being it hasn't been determined yet if he was saved or not upon death, we will add Paul have gone to heaven.

In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

 

Luke, just because you give me a handful of options and say "there you go, these are your only ones" does not make it so.

Also, to limit Christ's death to the "elect" only contradicts Scripture. Colossians 1:16-20 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

If he had not defeated death by being raised from the dead where would he be today being he was the Word made flesh lower than the angels for the suffering of death and died? What does Paul say in 1 Cor. 15?

Would not his soul still be in hell and his body would have seen corruption?

If the wages of sin is death which leads to corruption is there any life shown to be given outside the resurrection from the dead in the word of God?

 

Why is he coming to receive someone who is already there? John 14:3 is speaking of the second coming is it not?

 

I cannot wrap my mind around hypotheticals...just like I cannot fully grasp Adam's access to the tree of life needed to be guarded.

I'm sorry, I'm still not following you here.

 

Death was appointed to all born in the likeness of the first man Adam and it was appointed before he sinned. Adam was created a living soul so he could die.
Not only was death appointed before he sinned it was appointed before he was created that the Word made flesh after the likeness of Adam the Lamb of God would be slain.

The Word made flesh: God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. but Jesus was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

When God created Adam he had a plan and it did not depend on what Adam did or did not do.