No greater love and limited atonement

Notice he didn't answer the question? Maybe you should run for politics, you are talented at evading the subject.

 

Just thought I would repost my questions that Tom Vols buried.

 

Oh, "all men" really just means "many". So in Rom 5:18 the judgment of condemnation did not come upon "all men", just "many"?

Is that what you are saying?

 

Trust

Romans 4:
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."[Psalm 32:1,2]

God isn't depending on men or waiting on us. We are depending on Christ and His word, by just trusting, believing in Him we will be saved. Or the other side, not and be condemned. Through the Spirit and life in the words of Christ we can just do that. After Christ is lifted up all men are drawn, but the only one who will come is those who listen and learn from the Father through the words of Jesus.

I do believe in men being dead but the word of Jesus changes that rule after He was glorified. His word gives us Spirit and life. Walking away we remain the same with no change. We are the messengers of the words of Christ.

God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy on and according to the word of God He will have mercy on those who trust in His Son.

Like it or not we are depending on God through Jesus and His word where are faith comes from, God is not depending on us.

I believe in the Elect and through this Elect, God will bring amount saved that will be like the sands of the seashore.

 

Limited atonement?

I am amazed at how many times things like this get hashed, slashed, and dashed. People get mad, get their feelings hurt, etc., and yet they continue this salvo with each other about limited atonement for and against, and neither side budges one inch! Sheesh!! Now, with that being said, lemme wade in, too!! LOL

Here is a question I'd like to ask both parties(for and against) of Limited atonement?

Was EVERY SIN(past, present, and future) placed upon Jesus we He sacrificed Himself on the cross at Calvary? If you say "yes", then He made an atonement for all sins by His death, burial, and resurrection. If you say "no", then what sins weren't atoned for?

1John Ch. 2: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. This verse plainly states that He is THE propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.

Romans Ch. 5:6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Again, Christ died for who? The ungodly! All have sinned and come short of the glory of God

Gal. Ch. 3: 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Again, the scriptures have concluded all under sin, not some.

Now to my DoG Brethern, I am closer to your doctrine than you may think. Man on his own, will not/can not even begin to save himself. For that matter, mankind can't even have a thought of God with God giving that to him. Until the Holy Ghost began drawing me, I wanted things my way. But once the "drawing power" started, I had something to work with. It was up to me to respond with a "yea" or "nay".

Rev. Ch. 3:Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man will hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Looks to me like that man has something to do, doesn't it? Jesus said "I stand at the door and knock", not bust it down.

I know that most won't "eat" half what I just posted, but I tried anyways. With love!!

i am I am's!!

Willis

 

I'm not going to argue with you. I really don't care what you believe, and I'm not going to waste my time. Regardless, you think Calvinism is true to the bible, and I don't.

 

"We notice that if we talk about the election of men and the non-election of fallen
angels, there is not a cavil for a moment. Every man approves of Calvinism till he
feels that he is a loser by it; but when it begins to touch his own bone and his own
flesh then he kicks against it." Charles Spurgeon

"No man is ever taken to heaven against his will, though I do not believe any man
ever went there of his own free will till God’s sovereign grace enlightened him and
made him willing." Spurgeon

Either God is totally sovereign, including the realm of salvation, or He is not. I choose to say, as scripture does, that God saves whom he would, and those whom He saves are the ones Christ's blood is effective towards. I will not buy into the lie of universalism, which is what most so-called Christians believe.

 

Let me understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that Christians who don't believe in the 5 points are universalists? Seems that I've read between the lines and picked up on a suggestion that the supposed logical conclusion to non-calvinism is universalism. Am I hearing this correctly too?

 

The atonement is not limited, for Christ was lifted up to draw all men unto Himself. Salvation is limited to only those who have faith in Christ's atonement on their behalf.

The verse in question (Rom. 5:18) is saying that condemnation came upon the whole race through Adam, but justification also came for the whole race through Christ.

But we are only justified through faith. There must be atonement and faith in order for one to receive salvation.

OT example would be that atonement was made for all Israel, but not every single Israelite was saved. Only those who had faith were saved.

 

I do not think he understands what universalism is. At least it does not sound like it.

 

Christ even died for those people who will end up in hell. 2 Peter 2 tells us Christ bought the false prophet who denies Him bringing upon himself swift destruction.

 

Leviticus 16:17 And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy place, until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel.

Yes it does. Scripture says atonement was made for ALL the congregation of Israel.

If you cut that one verse out of context, you might have a point, but comparing scripture to scripture, we KNOW that justification comes through faith. No one is just automatically justified.