...no one can say, "Jesus is Lord", except...

He can be resisted:

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

HankD
​

 

Yes Hank, they do resist the Holy Spirit and always will until the Holy Spirit pricks their hearts and then it is a done deal...NO more resisting.

In Christ,
Here Now

 

OK, but now I don't know the point of your post.

Saved or unsaved the Scripture seems to indicate that we are all able to resist Him.

HankD

 

Not only able but always will until the Holy Spirit does His work.

 

Hank, if we can resist Him when we are saved, then what are we saved from?

 

This is a logical fallacy. God's will and sovereignty is quite in tact when He is rejected by men in the midst of urging.

 

I'm not by a Bible but isn't this Paul speaking to the Jews? If so, this passage is not about salvation as in the OP this is more about rejecting the Messiah and denying who Jesus is. He also calls them murderers for killing Jesus.

 

Not about salvation? Can you reject Messiah Jesus and be saved?


Edit: this passage is spoken by Stephen

 

I got my lazy up and got a bible.

Point made... Both of them.

 

:laugh:

:thumbs:

:1_grouphug:

 

Sin and death.

However the Scripture indicates that we are able to sin after salvation and therefore resist His will:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:​

Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;​

It really doesn't matter, saved, unsaved, jew, gentile, male, female, no one can go outside the boundaries of the sovereignty of God.​

But then, if we are able to resist Him then that fact (resistance) somehow must be within those boundaries.​

So therefore if someone seems to fail of the grace of God because of their resistance then that resistance is within those boundaries.​

Once entering into His rest however there is the exception given in Scripture OSAS:​

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.​

Eternal life is the foundation which no man can change.

But we can loose all "reward" and yet still be saved (so as by fire) by resisting His will after the rebirth.

HankD​

 

You're right. Paul isn't saying that people can't "mouth these words." But neither is He saying that one must be saved to say them. He IS saying that anyone who says them does so "by the Holy Spirit" -- because they heard it from the Spirit. And this kinda nails down one portion of the gospel that some say cannot be "heard" by the reprobate. Not only can they "hear" the Spirit but they can believe Him -- and still not be saved (cf. They can "say in that day, 'Lord, Lord.'").

I would suggest that what they didn't say was "Savior, Savior."

The "power of the Holy Spirit" that you speak of is the word of God believed. It's the power to say "Jesus is Lord" and it (the word of God) is the power, if one believes it, to repent unto salvation.

The Holy Spirit is the mind, emotions, and will of God seen in nature (Rom 1:19-20) and in His word. This convicting-convincing "Word" can be taken into one's/anyone's own mind, emotions, and will (spirit) and be "examined." Believing it would, I'd say, lead one to the "filling" of the Spirit where every thought, emotion, and will of one's own spirit cries out to God, "What must we do?" But the "Word"/HS still does not belong to the recipient.

But Acts 2:38, etal. tell us that we must, under this power/"filling," "[r]epent ... in the name of Jesus Christ and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." To my understanding, repentance comes from the baptizing/filling of the Holy Spirit -> whereby (chronologically and logically) we die -> and are resurrected/"regenerated" by His indwelling as we receive "the gift of the Holy Ghost's" indwelling us.

You merely misunderstand what the Spirit's power is in salvation. You make the Holy Spirit's "drawing" a mandate for certain people when, even after they are saved, He is not irresistible. If He had the power that you speak of, then the "elect" would never sin, now would they?

skypair

 

Well, I agree it might be hard to see, but it is nevertheless true. God's wisdom and Godhead is seen in nature and in the word. The Holy Spirit is a Person though having no body unless He is enbodied in Christ or us. IOW, God's Spirit providing our personality.

I would like to suggest you consider the exact opposite -- a demon. A demon has no body but once he "possesses" someone, he provides much of their personality (i.e. Judas). He thereby has "Personhood."

I'm not either. :tonofbricks: What I'm saying is that the Holy Spirit does not overpower anyone who doesn't believe first. You seem to be claiming that the Holy Spirit "possesses" without any even knowledge of God, Christ, or the gospel.

skypair

 

no one can say "Jesus is Lord, except

CanadyJD: God never fails, man fails, God is righteous, man is unrighteous. I had to say that since your one post has God failing, that is not true. He is perfect, He is righteous, He is right and we are the opposites of that. He wants a perfect Love from us, that perfect Love has to be free, we have to have a choice for love to be perfect. We do have a choice, we can choose to have Him as our Father, or we can choose to have satan as our father, there are two choices here, and only two. He does not say, "eenie meenie miney moe, this one I'll save; but this one has to go"; He watches us to see what we will do, if we search after Him, He will make sure we find Him. He will take a man in the bush, if that man is searching for Him, and put a missionary in front of Him.
joyce

 

:laugh: AH, thanks for the laugh! Caught me of guard with that one. Good one. I hope you won't mind if I borrow the line. :laugh: