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"No one knows about that day or hour...nor the Son" Mark 13:32

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Mark 13:32
    No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

    The fact that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of His return has nothing to say about His perfection as a divine being. Since the future doesn't exist yet, it is, by definition, unknowable.

    One could say that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of foreknowledge by taking on human flesh, but wouldn't He at least remember the date of His return if that were the case?

    Here is just one example from scripture, among many, of God reacting to human choices:

    Genesis 22:12
    “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

    The day and the hour of Christ's return are not predetermined, but instead will come to pass at the appropriate season.

    Acts 1:7
    He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.

    The due season will come once the Gospel has been preached to all peoples, giving them a chance of repentance before the Second Coming, but the exact date is yet to be determined.

    Matthew 28:19-20
    19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

    2 Peter 3
    8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...

    Imagine how many embarrassments in Christian history would have been prevented if Christ's followers had, instead of making false predictions of Christ's return, recognized that no one knows the day nor the hour, not even the Son.
     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
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  2. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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  3. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Since the future doesn't exist yet, it is, by definition, unknowable. This says nothing about Jesus' perfection as a divine being.

    Here is just one example from scripture, among many, of God reacting to human choices:

    Genesis 22:12
    “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

    Bearing False Witness is a Sin, A Warning of God's Judgment

    Whether one likes it or not, Finney had a profound influence on Baptists in the United States.

    Do you honestly know anything about what the Anabaptists, the historical forerunners of the Baptist faith, actually believed?

    Do you know who Gregory Boyd is? This is his case for believer's baptism:

    The Case For Believer's Baptism - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

    Greg Boyd is far from being a heretic. He is, along with N. T. Wright, one of the best conservative scholars on the historical Jesus today.

    I've been a fan of Greg Boyd ever since he first published Myth of a Chrstian Nation:

    The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the Quest for Political Power is Destroying the Church

    This is the statement of faith from Greg Boyd's church, which seems like a pretty standard Baptist statement of faith:
    Beliefs

    Whether one is a Molinist, open theist, Calvinist, Arminian, etc. has nothing to do, whatsoever, with the essentials of Christian salvation.

    "In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."

    Ecclesiastes 7:18
    It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.

    1 Corinthians 8:2-3
    Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.
     
    #3 Humble Disciple, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    heresy to deny Pauline Justification, as is Open theism!

    The future as already been set and fixed by God see Revelation!
     
  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    upload_2021-8-4_15-22-54.jpeg

    Here is the statement of faith from Greg Boyd's church, please show us where it denies the Pauline doctrine of justification:
    Beliefs

    Please cite the chapter and verse which proves this to be the case.

     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Nt Wright denies Pauline Justification, while Boyd advocates Open theism heresy!
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus explained, Acts of the Apostles 1:7, ". . . It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. . . ." Limiting His omniscience in some way and fully being God is nothing new to Him, John 1:18 KJV, Genesis 22:12. He is a distinct Person from His Father
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus limited Himself to being fully human, while still being fully God, and He now fully knows all things once again in His risen state!
     
  9. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Whether one accepts or rejects open theism has nothing to do with the essentials of salvation.

    "In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."

    Open Theism Bible Verses in 33 Categories
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I personally reject "open theism." Rather I hold the view that the acts of the Son being both a distinct Person and God are what what "open theists" missinterpret.
     
  11. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    If the future is, by definition, unknowable, since it doesn't yet even exist, this says nothing about God's perfection as a divine being.

    One could say that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of foreknowledge by taking on human flesh, but wouldn't He at least remember the date of His return if that were the case?

    We can be good Bereans, using our God-given reason to search the scriptures ourselves and make our own conclusions.

    Isaiah 1:18
    Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

    Isaiah 43:26
    Put Me in remembrance, let us argue our case together;
    State your cause, that you may be proved right.

    Acts 17:11
    Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

    "In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."

    1 Corinthians 8
    2 Anyone who claims to know all the answers doesn’t really know very much. 3 But the person who loves God is the one whom God recognizes.

    Ecclesiastes 7
    18 It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. Whoever fears God will avoid all extremes.

    Open Theism Bible Verses in 33 Categories
     
    #11 Humble Disciple, Aug 5, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God in His infinite being is absolutely omniscient. Now the Son is different in He is both another distinct Person from God and the very same God too. See Hebrews 1:3 and John 1:1-3. Trinitarians have trouble when it is really simple. Maybe not for all of us, but is for God.
     
  13. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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  14. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As the OP is now perma-banned, this thread is now closed.
     
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