No Scripture Challenge

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Here you can state your position and discuss the doctrines you hold to, but you must do so without posting any proof text.

    Examples:

    Why are you a Baptist?
    Why are you a Catholic?
    Why are you a SDA?
    Why are you none of the above?
    Why do you believe or not believe in Faith Alone?
    Why do you believe or not believe in OSAS?
    How do you witness for the Gospel?
    What is your definition of the Gospel?
    Etc, Etc, Etc,

    No Scripture quotes, only a Conversation. You may refer to what you believe the bible teaches, but do not post any Scripture references. This thread is more of a life application, how does your beliefs play out in your own life.

    I will begin. My No Scripture Challenge is OSAS.

    I believe once a person is saved they will always be saved because being born-again is a total remake of the heart by God. One becomes one with God. It is an act of God, no one can make themselves be born and no one can change the fact that they have been born. Once born of God a person has the permanent witness not just with them but as part of their very being, there would be no way to disconnect, nor would anyone desire too because Christ is their own being. So if one could lose their salvation that would have to mean God sends some of His children to hell and Jesus Christ would go there with them. Why would He do this? For sinning? For rebelling? No, we all sin and all sin is covered by the cross with the exception of unbelief, which would no longer be a factor since the remake. I believe God corrects His children, even to the point of taking their mortal life if He sees it necessary for a greater good.

    I could write out a book, but this should get things started. Refute, Question or post another topic. This thread may flop, or it may spark some good conversation. I know it will be challenging to persuade another through reasoning rather than just posting proof text and feeling vindicated.

    Blessings!
     
  2. JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,360
    Likes Received:
    127
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Because chicks dig it.

    Because requiring a man who can not do more good than sin to work for his salvation and threatening a man with the constant fear of losing his salvation makes God a capricious joker, which we know is as far from the truth as can be.

    We would be no more than Sisyphus, cursed for eternity by the capricious and petty gods to roll a bolder up Mt Olympus, only to have it roll back to the bottom, every time we sin.

    How can I answer without citing scripture when witnessing for the Gospel requires the use of the law?

    Man is hopelessly sinful and, as such, is at enmity with God. God, however, in His great compassion and love for us, has kept the law we could not keep, paid the debt we could not pay, and which He did not owe, and condescended to become the atoning Lamb for our sin.

    Not picking on you, but just for future reference, "proof text" doesn't mean the way you're using it.
     
  3. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    What would you say not having a bible in your hands. Just talking with someone you meet?

    Well, I think we should all know what I mean. My proof texting just means trying to prove your point with bible text, in or out of context. LOL.
     
  4. JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,360
    Likes Received:
    127
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Without being able to refer to scripture, nothing.

    But that isn't typically what is meant by that phrase.
     
  5. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I said you can refer to what you know in the bible.

    I will revise. No proof texting and no posting Scripture references. ;)
     
  6. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I fixed it, didn't know I still had time to edit it. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  7. utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,590
    Likes Received:
    59
    Like this?










     
  8. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes! Now what belief do you hold to that you posted those pictures for?
     
  9. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So what belief do you hold to that prompted you to post these pictures?
     
  10. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,175
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I am SDA because like Noah and like John the baptizer - the SDA church has correct Bible doctrine and has the last warning message given to the World as found in a Bible book that can't be mentioned on this thread but is has the 3 Angel's messages.

    I believe the "Saved by grace through faith" doctrine in a Bible location that can't be mentioned because God said it and it fits with the statement that all are sinners and all of a sinful nature.

    I don't believe in OSAS because it does not pass the "sola scriptura" test of the Bible.

    The NEW Covenant is a great description of the Gospel benefit for mankind - and chapter 15 of some book in the Bible the can't be named here has a great description of the Gospel - where in its shortest form we have John 3:16
     
  11. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I'm curious why you think God did not give His children the correct Bible doctrine until like 1800 years after He had established His Church? JWs make the same claim, that no one worshiped correctly or had the correct Bible doctrine until they came along about the same time.
     
  12. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So how do you believe one loses their salvation once having been born of God?
     
  13. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,175
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The way that Christ said they do and that Paul said they do and that Ezekiel said they do -- free will
    The same way Lucifer became lost
    The same way Adam became lost
     
  14. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    So by freewill you can just step in and out of salvation? Why would you choose to be saved from damnation and then the next day say "oh, I choose today to not be saved from damnation, I would like hell instead please". ???

    Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation?
     
  15. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,175
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Why would perfect sinless Lucifer choose to give up eternal life - glory - ?/
    Why would perfect sinless Adam choose disease death cancer, the flood, children that kill each other, the lake of fire?

    Is this what you are asking?

    No that is not what you are asking -- you are asking why sinful. sinful-nature-filled humanity would make a bad choice after having been redeemed.

    Why would the stony ground having the seed spring to life... die back again.
    Why would the thorny ground having the seed spring to life... get distracted by the concerns of this world.


    They do it the way that Christ said they do and that Paul said they do and that Ezekiel said they do -- free will
    The same way Lucifer became lost
    The same way Adam became lost
     
  16. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,175
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You are not asking why the sinless spotless perfect standing-in-the-presence-of-God beings would make a mistake. You freely admit they could be in error.

    You are asking why the defective, sinful-nature-filled, can't-obey-God's-Law (in your view) beings would make a mistake.
     
  17. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You really did not answer within the proper context of what we both know is the meaning of "saved" and "Once Saved". You have to be saved from something. Lucifer and Adam fell to sin, Lucifer as an Angel and not a human being was sealed by God forever damned, no chance of being saved, I believe we both know this. Adam, being a human and having been given the promise of salvation from his sin and damnation, becoming damned and in need of being saved from that damnation for the first time. Adam was not saved before he first sinned, he had no need to be saved.

    So back to what I asked, which Lucifer nor Adam fits as examples....

    Why would you choose to be saved from damnation and then the next day say "oh, I choose today to not be saved from damnation, I would like hell instead please". ???

    Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation?
     
  18. steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,767
    Likes Received:
    119
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Your right, I did not ask this at all.

    I did not ask this either. My question are not difficult, nor are they unclear. Let's be honest and have an honest conversation. I have been saved for 45 years now and not one day was I not. How long have you been saved now and have you yourself stepped in and out of salvation as you believe one could?
     
  19. utilyan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2016
    Messages:
    2,590
    Likes Received:
    59

    When you sin your lost. Right now you take too much pleasure in it.

    You would not take a hammer and smash your hand with it and be like wee lets do that again.

    Reminds me of that DirectTV commercial where folks love the bad things that happen to them.

    Between now and heaven sinning will sound MORE INSANE then smashing your hand with a hammer for FUN.

    Can you imagine having that attitude? Sinning is more insane and stupid then smashing your hand with a hammer for FUN.

    When you get there, your SAVED, thats the real you, you are not saved at all you still think Sinning is some PERK.

    You think the worst consequence is suffering eternally. Its not, SIN itself is the problem.
     
  20. BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,175
    Likes Received:
    47
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    Why would perfect sinless Lucifer choose to give up eternal life - glory - ?/
    Why would perfect sinless Adam choose disease death cancer, the flood, children that kill each other, the lake of fire?

    Is this what you are asking?

    No that is not what you are asking -- you are asking why sinful. sinful-nature-filled humanity would make a bad choice after having been redeemed.

    Why would the stony ground having the seed spring to life... die back again.
    Why would the thorny ground having the seed spring to life... get distracted by the concerns of this world.

    They do it the way that Christ said they do and that Paul said they do and that Ezekiel said they do -- free will
    The same way Lucifer became lost
    The same way Adam became lost

    You are not asking why the sinless spotless perfect standing-in-the-presence-of-God beings would make a mistake. You freely admit they could be in error.

    You are asking why the defective, sinful-nature-filled, born-again yet can't-obey-God's-Law (in your view) beings would make a mistake?? seriously??

    Still... they are questions that appear to have obvious answers.

    Glad to hear it.