I'm not clear how this is answering my question. Maybe I am not wording it right.
You made the statement that when you sin you lose your salvation COMPLETELY. Then after probing a bit you stated that you do sin. So I am trying to understand how this works as you see it in your own life as you sin from day to day. How would you ever know if you are saved or not each day?
P.S. Remember this is a no scripture challenge. It is a personal life application thread on each others beliefs. How what one believes is played out in one's life and makes sense. Blessings!
No Scripture Challenge
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Jan 8, 2018.
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By contrast the sinner on earth who is a Christian - still has a sinful nature and even you argue he cannot perfectly obey the Word of God. How much MORE likely that the corrupt sinful-nature enhanced Christian can "make a poor choice".
The "rescued" state of the sinner - leaves him with a sinful-nature-still. And we both know it.
the point remains. obviously. -
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This is why I prefer the Bible because otherewise it gets to pointless ideas such as the above.
the point remains.
I believe in your heart you know it is a silly point and the Bible refutes it so you seek to avoid the Bible altogether. -
Steaver you not in heaven.
You in the water someone throws as Life Guard at you. "I'm SAVED"
When you grab it. "I'm SAVED"
When they are pulling you in. "I'm SAVED"
When you are on the boat."I'm SAVED"
When you are back home. "I'm SAVED"
When you sin you have rejected your place in heaven, you have refused it and thrown it away, you don't want it at all. -
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Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation? Which you are afraid to answer.
You displaying your fear of answering my question only bolsters my point of this thread.
The question remains for you..... Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation? -
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I thought maybe I was not wording it right, but I'm not sure, maybe you just don;t want to answer.
You made the statement that when you sin you lose your salvation COMPLETELY. Then after probing a bit you stated that you do sin. So I am trying to understand how this works as you see it in your own life as you sin from day to day. How would you ever know if you are saved or not each day?
You do sin, correct? So what does this rejecting your place in heaven look like in your own life? How do you live day to day knowing or not knowing you are saved? -
I sin, being taught not to. I have a choice to drop out or not.
"So what does this rejecting your place in heaven look like in your own life? "
Like a lot of mercy.
"How do you live day to day knowing or not knowing you are saved?"
Who wakes up every day thanking their parents for not killing them? I have great parents. Its not like I have zero contact with God. Some times i argue with God and God explains himself.
The bottom line is communication, life is just a means to it.
There is box with a certificate inside saying I am saved forever. If I have to open that box and look it over whats that say about my trust in God?
Point being why do you even bring up salvation in every subject?
I got parents who get annoyed when I ask for a drink. Rumor is God is kinder then they are.
Thanks for not shooting me today, Lord. I suppose is you are trying to get God to laugh thats a ok prayer. -
You think we already know the word of God and all we need now is for you to "'make stuff up" to complete our doctrinal understanding? Please be serious. -
That is "instructive" by every measure for the unbiased objective reader.
Great example of it is where you ask for an example of someone losing salvation which we already have in Matthew 18 and Romans 11 and ask that we not "mention" the fact that the Bible already gave the answer!
Instructive!! life application. -
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Now, why do you fear applying your own beliefs to your own life?
Your avoidance is speaking volumes you know? Why is this so hard for you?? -
Isaiah 59
2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God,
And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.
Salvation is you stop sinning. You still sin? you are not saved. Being saved sure.
The words salvation and saved, don't mean anything. If you were hungry and then got pizza, whether i slap the word saved or not you still got pizza.
For you to be saved you have to stop sinning.
Who is God saving you from? -
So as you sin you believe you lose your salvation. This would mean that if you were to have a heart attack and die as you are in the act of a burst of uncontrollable unrighteous anger for instance, you would go to hell. Or if you walked past a homeless person and thought you should have done something but was too busy getting to another appointment, walked out in front of a truck and was killed, you would be damned to hell for that sin of failing to be the good Samaritan.
I believe salvation is all about Jesus Christ and nothing of myself. I believe sin is covered by the cross of Jesus Christ and since I am born of God I have been justified freely by His grace and God remembers my sin no more, not my past sins, my present sins nor my future sins, in fact He removes my sin as far as the east is to the west and when He looks upon me he sees no sin but looks upon me with the perfect love through Jesus Christ, which can only come from a perfect God. Just a sinner saved by grace. I believe I have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, and when I do sin Jesus says to the Father, "I paid for that sin too, this child is mine, I will correct him as he continues on".
This is why I started this thread, it gives great insight into the motivation behind what one follows. Why they belong to a particular church or sect, what that church is teaching them and how one's beliefs causes them to live out their lives in a particular way.
I commend you for your honesty and willingness to state your position. It gives me and others here an understanding of what is being taught in the RCC churches. I believe your focus on the person sinning rather than on the Person doing the saving from the sinning is misdirected, but at least your are not afraid to state your beliefs. -
Has anyone ever sinned before they existed? did everyone sin the moment they were born?
The sinner is the HIGHEST PRIORITY. Jesus doesn't need your help, You need his help. But whats your standard? You expect some beam of light to shoot out the sky and zap you to heaven in a sinless state. The beam of light is the gospel Jesus preaches, the instructions he gives you .
When you get to heaven there is no more sinning for you.
Jesus Christ can DO ANYTHING absolutely anything. But you seem to think he can't even teach you to tie your own shoes.
You believe God is that stupid? that he is incapable of teaching you how to not sin?
Your short coming does not outweigh his greatness.
Its true believe your driving instructor and you will drive a car safely. He gives instructions of practice and things we should do. But you say to yourself of course I drive safely i believe in my driving instructor......right into a brick wall.
Jesus teaches and says to learn from him. We are taught Jesus is our exemplar.
I didn't see Jesus grovel on someone else to save him. His priorities are on Love God and Love neighbor.
"I believe I have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, and when I do sin Jesus says to the Father, "I paid for that sin too, this child is mine, I will correct him as he continues on".
This is true. Hence your not in heaven, neither am I and we are not biting each other's head off, you are here talking to me, we are being CORRECTED as we continue on.
Also we don't follow a COURTROOM legalism with an obsession over Salvation. Our obsession is Love God and Love neighbor.
We don't spend hours at the dinner table declaring God is going to shoot or damn these guys but he is not going to shoot us.
Every thread on this board has to do with obsession over one's salvation taking precedence over the COMMAND of GOD.
There is people who will not do the command of God because it doesn't pay out in salvation, that is pathetic.
"So as you sin you believe you lose your salvation. This would mean that if you were to have a heart attack and die as you are in the act of a burst of uncontrollable unrighteous anger for instance, you would go to hell. Or if you walked past a homeless person and thought you should have done something but was too busy getting to another appointment, walked out in front of a truck and was killed, you would be damned to hell for that sin of failing to be the good Samaritan."
You can feed everyone in the world, never anger, makes no difference, a fear based motive of survival in salvation, has no righteousness. Love has to be the motive.
I don't believe you are worst then anyone and its by the grace of God we're not the next crazy mass murderer. I think life is a classroom rather then a courtroom.
My Calvinist buddies are still "SHOCKED" and "SURPRISED" by the miracle that GOD would even bother to save "a wretch" like them. Because they EXPECTED God to be a whole jerk rather then half a jerk.
Is God going to kill me or not? is God going to kill you or not?........ <-- is not the broken record theme we run daily. :rolleyes: -
Q#2 Everyone is born with the sin curse of Adam pumping through the flesh and is in need of the saving blood of Jesus Christ.
Of course these questions do not relate to OSAS, which is speaking of a person getting saved through faith in Jesus Christ and then staying saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
Since you brought my question for Bob into our conversation I think you should go ahead and give an answer as well....
Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation?
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This is the point of this thread, showing how probing into the life application of one's beliefs will expose doctrines as truth or error. The hope is that once the belief has been tested, and it should fail the personal life application test, it would be repented of and abandoned.
The final question that sifted out of the conversation and caused much distress to Ultilyan and BobRyan's held beliefs was... Have you yourself ever stepped in and out of salvation? While both men believe this is possible of the born of God, neither of them had ever experienced this in their own lives and I am assuming each man has been a believer for quite a number of years.
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