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Noah's Flood - Scriptural Mysteries and Theories

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by 2Pillars, May 25, 2019.

  1. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    It is my Biblical Opinion.. In order to understand Noah's Global Flood, one must understand the following:

    The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our earth, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water below and above it into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 - while our own present world is surrounded by Star Dust. Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present Earth, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water. Isa 24:19

    This Earth, the Earth of Adam, was considered FLAT by the Ancient Hebrew Perspective. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 .... while our earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while our present World has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

    Here are some model images of Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Flat Earth -simili - for reference only - Adam's firmament of heaven - surrounded by waters below and above it .......Ancient Hebrew Cosmology

    During the Great Flood, Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft above Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20. On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

    That's one of the mysteries. HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    You certainly have presented some unique theories about the creation and flood stories.
    Can you present any evidence that the early Hebrews (or any others in the past for that matter) believed something along the lines of what you have proposed?

    One of the criteria for my personal understanding is ‘believability’. Both your theories have crossed over this line.

    Rob
     
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  3. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    I have provided my post above with explanation and Scriptural proof text to support my Biblical Stand.... Also, I have provided the LINK necessary about the Ancient Hebrew Perspective of the Flat Earth of Adam... Here it is again for your convenience.......Ancient Hebrew Cosmology ....and the rest of the claim made is documented in the Scripture, Science and History. Let me know exactly which is it that you have a question about. Thanks

    God bless
     
  4. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    As I have posted before…. Adam's world was FLAT and much smaller than our present world. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 while our present earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while the present world has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

    My Theory - Based on the Scripture:

    Adam’s firmament of heaven was placed in the vicinity beneath the body of waters above and below it. It was in a completely enclosed Biosphere - protecting Adam's world from waters below and above it - like an incubator of Humanity. it was in Lake Van, Turkey in the beginning, during the making of our worlds (multiverse).

    During the great flood, Noah’ Ark was above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft.). The firmament, in which Adam's Earth was contained beneath the surface of water in Lake Van, Turkey --and end up floating the largest Lake in the area. It's in the mountains of Ararat and is some 75 miles wide.

    We know this because In the New Testament, we were told that their heaven and earth.... “whereby that the world THEN WAS -- standing out of the water and in the water -- being overflowed with water, perished” (Greek- totally destroyed) 2Pet 3:5-6

    The Ark which was covered, floated out the top of Adam's firmament into the largest Lake in the area (Lake Van) when the windows of their heaven opened and the flood gates of waters rushes in the firmament,.... as the firmament sank, it released the Ark into our world - thus, Adam’s world was totally destroyed / dissolved in the Global Flood.

    If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it.

    This explains a way for a 450 foot Ark to be above their highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft) ref. Gen 7:20 ...AND....in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th Day after the flood began (Gen 8:4).

    Our God is awesome God.
     
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Adam’s small earth was the garden, described in the opening chapters of Genesis as the source of the four rivers mentioned in Genesis. It does not say there were no other rivers.
    The universe of that age was certainly perceived differently than it is imagined today. It was imagined as much smaller, but that is not to say that it was smaller.

    My problem with this theory is an over-literal view of the text. You take what the text says and infer that that is all that there is.

    The Bible is not a science book. It’s true, the ancient world viewed the world/universe in a different way than we do today. Rather than taking everything we read in the Bible as simple facts, we need to find the intended meaning of the text through the eyes of its ancient recipients and then bring it into our modern understanding of the world.

    Rob
     
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  6. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Dear Rob,

    It's simple to know if one's interpretation is correct. If it agrees with God's Holy Word, true Science, and History, it's as close to the One Truth as is Humanly possible.

    There is NOT one Truth for True Science and another one for "Bible Believing Christians”. There is Only 1 Truth, and every other discovered Truth MUST agree with God's Truth or we have Not found the 1 Truth.

    That's why I seek the agreement of every other discovered Truth, to measure against God's Holy Word. The fault is Not with God's Truth, but with man's ability to understand it, for His thoughts are far above man's thoughts.

    I also love to see other Christian's views, for that is the way we learn. The Holy Spirit reveals one thing to me and something else to another. Listen to the Old Songs, and read the words, and you will see the Holy Spirit in action.

    When we all get together, in Heaven, we will come to know All of the Truth. Jesus told us "I am the Truth". I can hardly wait to know God's Truth, face to face. How bout you?

    God bless
     
  7. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Dear Rob,

    Here's how I see / imagine the 1st Heaven - Adam's World - based on the Scripture and Theory:

    The first firmament of heaven protected the interior of the Biosphere of Adam from the water which totally surrounded it. When the windows on high were opened and it rained for forty days and nights, the Biosphere began to sink in the water. After 150 days the water was 22 1/2 feet deep and covered the highest hills of that world.

    The first Heaven, as God called it, was much smaller than our Earth. The entire land had but 4 Rivers while our Earth has thousands. When the covered Ark rose upon the water which filled the firmament, it passed through the windows onto Lake Van, Turkey where it had been all the time, under the water. The first world was totally destroyed in water and Noah was brought safely to our 2nd Heaven, which was made the 3rd Day. Genesis 2:4

    No Spaceship necessary. It simply passed from one Biosphere to another. Soon, all Christians will leave this world and we will enter the Third Heaven, just as Noah entered our second Heaven. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, thanks to Jesus. Are you ready?

    Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Adam’s World …. .Ancient Hebrew Cosmology .... Picture a completely enclosed Lucite Sphere or boundary into which is placed water: Check the link above to have better idea or visualization.

    Gen 1:9¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

    Above is God's command. Remember that God is an invisible Spirit. He is commanding YHWH, his Son, the ONLY Physical Image of God, to gather the waters which are under the firmament (showing that the firmament was floating) and put them inside the first Heaven or Universe.

    Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    Now that the water is in the bottom of the firmament, YHWH, the Son, adds ground or dry land, and his Father calls the dry land "Earth". We already know that Air was also inside the firmament because there was water under the firmament.

    Conclusion. Fill a hollow lucite sphere with some water, dry ground above that, and air, and you have the first enclosed, self supporting, Universe, which is completely separate from ANY other world. It is much smaller than our Cosmos, and the small Earth has a Flat surface. It's four Rivers all come out of the Garden of Eden which is only 22 1/2 feet in elevation. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

    God also gives away additional information by calling the water, which was twisted, and caused a Roaring sound, when it was placed inside the firmament. The Hebrew word for "Seas" means "a roaring." I love to hear the Seas roar.

    This could NOT have been our Earth since it would take water over 29K feet deep to cover Mount Everest. Some math whiz should calculate the size of the firmament. How big is the hollow sphere based on the data that it took forty days and nights of rain to fill it and cause it to sink, thus allowing the Ark to escape the confines of the First world

    God bless
     
    #7 2Pillars, May 25, 2019
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    These theories are not biblical. The scripture is the word of God in truth
     
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  9. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Dear Iconoclast,

    I don't find your objection to my post properly articulated. relevant to what I have asserted. What you have is another disagreement which is lacking in merit!

    Therefore, your OBJECTION IS DENIED .
     
    #9 2Pillars, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  10. MartyF

    MartyF Active Member

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    :Laugh

    It doesn't work like that. You truly went off the deep end with post #7.

    If you want to introduce something brand new and off-the-wall in Biblical interpretation, you have got to give a much better explanation. In addition, you have to truly provide a definite Biblical basis for what you have said. Remember, Paul took his visions and made sure the other Apostles agreed. If a bunch of us are saying "I don't think so." maybe you should think more about whether what you say corresponds with scripture.

    No. God is not Schizophrenic.
     
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  11. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This includes the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) - of Gen 6 who's origin is also from the waters and is also made flesh.

    Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust of the ground. Some Unbelievers see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that the Scripture is mistranslated.

    They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally brought forth EVERY Living Creature that moved, from the water, on Day 5. The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus squeezed, as a potter would mold a clay, and formed living creatures (His Kinds) from the dust of the ground .

    The creatures made from the dust were identical to those brought forth from the waters and could produce offspring together.

    The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground. Gen 2:4- 7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.

    Like the animals made from the dust, humans also married and produced children with Beings brought forth from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet (Gen 6). Incest was never part of the multiplication of Humankind, as far as the God’ righteousness is concerned.

    After the union between the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) and daughters of men (humans) Gen 6, we acquired the DNA of the prehistoric beings and we also have the Human intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human. We are all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.

    God brought forth every living creature that moveth from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced "His /Their Kinds" from the dust of the ground, at the beginning of the 6th Day and brought them to Adam for him name them.

    We are all confined to our own kind in order to multiply. Unfortunately, Scoffers of the Last Days remain willingly ignorant of God’ Truth..
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That makes no sense. Any following arguments are discredited by that opening sentence.
     
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  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Oh if it were only that simple, then there wouldn't be any disagreements about science and theology but there have been countless theories about this passage over the centuries.

    (quote by Pillar)”It is my Biblical Opinion.. In order to understand Noah's Global Flood, one must understand the following:
    The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our earth”

    I understand this to be fancy words for “Adam lived in a garden
    The garden was a (1) small place, (2) a protected place, (3) a place where things grow, (4) a place designed for humans to live in fellowship with God.

    Now I personally enjoy reading sci-fi but the idea that followed, the idea of a collapsing luminescent power dome sounds just a bit wacky, and then adding that Noah and the ark floated out of a hole in the top... isn’t that something along the lines of The Truman Show?

    Rob
     
    #13 Deacon, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    The Bible is not a book of mysteries and theories, just open your eyes and read what it says... Before you reply let me save you the trouble... Brother Glen:)

    I don't find your objection to my post properly articulated. relevant to what I have asserted. What you have is another disagreement which is lacking in merit!

    Therefore, your OBJECTION IS DENIED .
     
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  15. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    What you ALL have is just disagreement to my Biblical Stand of the matter at hand - without posting your contrasting view to support your disagreement based on your doctrinal view.

    Therefore, ALL OF YOUR OBJECTIONS are lacking in merit - for me to even take you all seriously.... projecting your own weaknesses upon your own fellow Christian brother like me who does NOT subscribe to your Ancient Traditional Goatherder's Theology.

    Here's my challenge:
    SHOW US YOUR BIBLICAL STAND SO WE CAN FURTHER DISCUSS YOUR SUPPOSEDLY CORRECT UNDERSTANDING.

    No? I thought so.
     
  16. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    To All Opposition:

    For your additional learning:

    The first Heaven or wold was in the midst of water below and above it and later destroyed in a Flood.
    The second Heaven is our present world - surrounded by Star Dust - which is scheduled to be burned.
    The third Heaven or world is the object of the Creation, contains a single city with streets of gold and gates of pearl, and it will never die (Rev.21).


    The first heaven was made the SECOND Day. Genesis 1:6-8
    The second heaven was made the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4
    The third heaven was is also made on the THIRD Day. Genesis 2:4

    The Physical Making of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd HeavenS - Multiverse - Based on the Scripture


    The 1st firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

    (Gen 1:6-8 KJV)And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, that’ more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.

    9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

    The firmament b/w Adam’s Earth and the heaven above was empty, containing clear air only.

    (Gen 2:6 KJV) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

    ..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

    Now, that we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, and the mist that went up from Earth on the 3rd Day Gen 1:8 forming the Earth’s Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

    (Gen 2:4 KJV) These are the generations of the heavenS (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

    Notice: As you already know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day.Gen 1:6-8.

    However, the cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adam’s Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

    Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 plus the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made on the 3rd Day, including the one that is being prepared for us,right now (Jhn 14:2 KJV) when this world is burned (Rev 21:1 KJV).

    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavenS (Plural) and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    IOW, no one in the proper frame of mind could deny that God Created and Made us a Multiverse to live in, Amen?
     
    #16 2Pillars, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  17. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Here is what I believe the story of the Tower of Babel actually teaches” based on the Scripture.

    BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

    There was no Human on this "Planet of Apes" (Evol's Terms) UNTIL Noah and his family arrived in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat - from the first heaven (garden of Eden) after their world was totally destroyed by the flood, some 11k years ago.

    When the rains came to the world of Adam, the firmament, which protected the first world from the water that surrounded it…. it started to brake down and began to sink. The Ark, which was already upon the waters began to rise as the firmament sank. This released the Ark into ANOTHER world, to the present world of ours.

    Noah's descendants thought they could build a tower to Heaven and escape the present Earth, just like Noah had escaped from the first Earth. They didn't want to be scattered over the face of the whole face of the Earth, into the lands of the Savages (prehistoric mankind), so they tried to escape our world, but the LORD had other plans.

    Thus, Humanity scattered over the face of the present Earth and the prehistoric people on this planet changed from innocent animal to Human intelligence. This shows that Humans did NOT evolve from Apes but from Noah's descendants.

    Remember, the 1st heaven or universe was Adam's world (Gen 1:6-8 KJV), which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. The present Universe is the 2nd Heaven, our world, made Billions of years AFTER Adam's world was made, and is also doomed for destruction and will be dissolved too. The 3rd Heaven or world is where Christians will go AFTER our world is burned Rev 21.

    Jesus said:
    Jnh 14:1-2 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    [Rev 21:1 KJV] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    God Bless
     
    #17 2Pillars, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Utter non-sense. The earth's atmosphere, space and the Heaven of heavens where the man Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God does not demonstrate that there is to be a multiverse. The idea of universe meaning everything, actually makes the concept of a multiverse to be a non-sense.
     
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  19. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Another disagreement without Scriptural merit - HUG WASH....... therefore, no need for a rebuttal.
     
    #19 2Pillars, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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  20. 2Pillars

    2Pillars Member
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    Noah's Flood:

    The idea that Noah brought thousands of animals/creatures inside the Ark is UnScriptural. The total number could have easily been few hundreds creatures/animals only.

    There was no need to bring creatures which were created and brought forth from the water on the 5th Day, Gen 1:21.... since those same kinds of creatures/animals (Trinity Kinds) were already on our present Planet and had been here for Billions of years when the Ark arrived and floated in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat (Lake Van. Turkey) some 11k years ago.

    The creatures which were aboard the Ark were the creatures.animals which YHWH, the Son of God, Made with His own Hands (His Kinds) from the dust of the ground. Science calls them common ancestors. The common ancestor of All Humanity on this planet was Adam thru Noah - a direct descendant of the first Human, Adam.

    God bless
     
    #20 2Pillars, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
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