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Non-Calvinists May Be Surprised

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by RipponRedeaux, Oct 18, 2021.

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  1. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I have before me six well-appreciated books. Three of them are by Baptists. But a number of Baptists enjoy and profit from some non-Baptist works. We cross denominational lines when the doctrine over all is biblically sound. "In the main" is what Spurgeon said with respect to the works of Calvin. Do you agree with Calvin's theology? "In the main, I do."

    It is my supposition that an open-minded individual should read widely among classical works by Christians. I had said on another thread that an honest non-Calvinist would agree with at least 75% of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith. Instead of hurling abuse and calling books by the Reformed "Calvinistic fiction" --a person should demonstrate a degree of integrity and diligently read works by Calvinists to see whether or not their bias is blinding them. I don't mean that people need to spend an inordinate amount of time --just devote some quality time to some prominent Calvinistic authors.

    I challenge the non-Calvinists out there to take me up on an offer. You don't have to spend a dime. Go to your local library and get an inter-library loan to secure some of the following books. Who knows? Maybe your own non-Calvinistic church has some of them in your library. Stranger things have happened.

    Grace Abounding To The Chief Of Sinners by John Bunyan.
    Comfort For Christians by Arthur W. Pink.
    Morning By Morning by C.H. Spurgeon
    Out Of The Depths by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
    Knowing God by J.I. Packer
    Devotions And Prayers Of John Calvin

    The shortest books in this list are the ones by A.W. Pink, D-M-L-J, and John Calvin.

    I suspect that if anyone dares to accept the challenge and reads one of the six items a certain conclusion will occur. You will exclaim that what you read was edifying and didn't really sound "Calvinistic" after all. You might even give a mighty endorsement.
     
    #1 RipponRedeaux, Oct 18, 2021
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    An author from "their camp" who was good would be AW Tozier to read
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  3. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    That's Tozer. He's good. I have and appreciate many of his books. I have about a dozen at least. But the other A. W. is much more sound --Arthur Walkingington Pink.
     
    #3 RipponRedeaux, Oct 19, 2021
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think some would be surprised that he went from being a Dispy to a calvinist!
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    AWP was a Calvinist from the get-go after his conversion. And that is a fascinating account.
    You do realize that he (1886-1952) was converted in 1908. He wrote The Sovereignty of God back in 1918. He was from a Congregationalist background. His parents were steeped in Calvinistic works. Pink examined the claims of Dispensationalism and reexamined his own pro-Dispensational books and came to the conclusion in the years 1928 to 1930 that he had been in error on the subject. In 1933 and 1934 he wrote articles refuting the doctrines of Dispensationalism.
     
    #5 RipponRedeaux, Oct 19, 2021
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was he a high calvinist then?
     
    #6 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  7. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I'd suppose so. But no higher than Dr. M-L-J.
     
    #7 RipponRedeaux, Oct 19, 2021
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you are having a LAUGH!!! I have yet to meet an open-minded Calvinist in my almost 40 years of being saved by the Lord! They are noted for twisting Scriptures, to force their natural meanings as God intended, to their warped theological bias. I will never know why some would call themselves Five Point Calvinists, and accept TULIP as though Calvin would approve. When John Calvin himself says very clearly on John 3:16, in his commentary:

    “That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

    These words reflect what the Bible actually teaches, and does not support the L in TULIP!
     
    #8 SavedByGrace, Oct 20, 2021
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  9. Michael Hollner

    Michael Hollner Active Member

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    ‘I challenge the non-Calvinists out there to take me up on an offer’

    Although I have read quite a bit from these authors already as you suggested, have you read these three titles below, or did you know that Dr. James White refuses to debate Dr. Ken Wilson on the Manichean-Augustinian-Calvinism foundations?

    Your challenge prompts me to challenge any Calvinist in the world to debate this man! It is curious to me as to why no Calvinist in the world will debate him.

    Are you a five-point Calvinist?

    Blessings……

    Debate1.PNG
     
    #9 Michael Hollner, Oct 20, 2021
  10. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    As I have said many times, I have no problem with High Calvinism. It is a position that can not successfully be debated against. I have also said many times that the form of compromising, lower Calvinism (the kind I mostly see on here) has as many holes in it as any non-Calvinistic position I know of.
     
    #10 Reynolds, Oct 20, 2021
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Dispensationalism was a calvinistic view.
     
    #11 JonC, Oct 20, 2021
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Majority of us are Covenant Theology though among Calvinists?
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Oct 20, 2021
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Now? Probably.

    When it comes to disoensationalism you could point to Irenaeus, but most look to Darby. This form of dispensationalism started with Calvinists.

    But I typically associate Calvinists with Covenant Theology.
     
    #13 JonC, Oct 20, 2021
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    How can a Baptist also claim to be a Calvinist? Do you infant baptize?
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 20, 2021
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  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, that is why I am a reformed Baptist, not a presbie one!
     
    #15 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2021
  16. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    You have been on the BB for eleven years and you have no knowledge of Calvinistic Baptists? You don't know Church History as it pertains to them? Have you ever heard of a fellow called Charles Spurgeon?
     
    #16 RipponRedeaux, Oct 22, 2021
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @RipponRedeaux
    I am not a Calvinist. I believe the same Scriptures.

    On the five points (of reference).
    Total Depravity. I agree on, but differner.
    Unconditional Election. I disagee with that terminology. But hold to Unmerited Election.
    Limited Atonment. I hold that limited atonement is a subset of Unlimited Atonement.
    Irresistable Grace. Not to all.
    Perseverance of the saints. God does the saving and the keeping.

    Without an unlimited atonement, the general gospel call is a fraud.
     
    #17 37818, Oct 22, 2021
  18. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    My OP asks readers of the thread to read some books by Calvinists. I made some suggestions. Have you read any of them? Do you wish to take me up on the offer? If you do decide to read what I suggested you might be surprised because you would agree most of the time with what is presented.

    On the other hand, perhaps you could recommend some books of your persuasion.
     
    #18 RipponRedeaux, Oct 22, 2021
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What non cal theology books would you suggest?
     
    #19 Yeshua1, Oct 22, 2021
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