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"Not as pleasing men, but God"

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. Pastor Chet

    Pastor Chet New Member

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    1 Timothy 6:3-5.
    If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

    Sometimes even in internet discussion boards God may say " From such withdraw thyself." just like He said in Timothy
    I guess that's the beauty of having the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us. There's a time to fight and a time to leave a fool in his folly.
    Pastor chet
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Where has Scott said anything about anyone who denies the doctrines you speak of above?? Please tell us so that we know you are not full of vitriol and anger for no reason.
     
  3. Chet

    Chet New Member

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    Brother Mark Osgatharp [​IMG] ,

    Pastor Larry has said it well and I appreciate his answer, but I would like to answer you as well. There may be times when a stern answer may be given but they should not be dominate in our conversation. Those times should be far and few between. Certainly it is much easier to be harsh and hard especially in the heat of a passionate discussion. I regret those instances when my words were not as gentle as they should have been and have lost any further opportunity to share the truth. Too often what we think is the right time for strong “rebuke” is not. And the New Testament clearly expresses this theme of approach throughout. Again I will re-quote 2 Thes as I think you are missing Paul’s point in verse 2. The point is not that Paul spoke the truth no matter what they would think of Him, but in spite of strong opposition… We had previously suffered and been insulted in Philippi, as you know, but with the help of our God we dared to tell you his gospel in spite of strong opposition. He goes on to explain how he did so, not with harsh words or with a mean or angry spirit… but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children Getting angry will not accomplish anything… My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. James 1:19-20

    I think you understand the meaning of Proverbs Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.. And by speaking the truth sometimes we make enemies, because of the truth; Gal 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?. And I greatly appreciate one who is willing to do that. We should never sacrifice truth for peace. But, how you share the truth is important. While ones motives may be well meaning, the end does not justify means – and in this case, you may not see the end.

    When you say things like “I don’t care…” I guess this is where I don’t understand at all. Because I do care so much for the people I have been able to share the gospel or truth with in some way. I care about what they believe, and pray that as I share the truth that my flesh will not in any way detour that person from understanding the truths I share. Because I love God and know the truth, His Spirit of love in me wants people to come to an understanding of Him. I can’t just throw the truth out there and then go away thinking I did my part who cares what they think. It grieves me tremendously when someone rejects the truth.

    To address this statement you made
    This is a self righteous statement Mark. While it may be true that some people have difficulty making a public statement per say, this is broad brushed. Maybe some do get encouraged when they receive a message from someone. Maybe discouragement sets in when all you see in responses is negative. I know I need encouragement from time to time, and from time to time I give it. Sometimes a person is certainly not afraid of making a public statement at all, but can’t afford the time to follow through with their statements. There may be countless reasons that have nothing to do with “public statements for the Lord”. ;)
     
  4. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    Come on, Mark! I don't like you, but I don't think you're going to Hell!

    Wrong again. Musical forms are not in the context of spirit and truth. Worship can be expressed through quicker songs such as "All That Thrills My Soul is Jesus" and slower ones like "My Faith Has Found a Resting Place." These are two different forms, yet I believe that a person can worship in both - after all, our LIVES are our acts of worship, when it all comes down to it. Jesus did not comment on forms or styles - just that whatever is done should be done in spirit and truth.

    And what you're saying is unScriptural. If a man believes that Jesus is Lord - THAT's what matters. You were unable to overcome your burden of proof on this point on a different thread.

    There you go again.

    They're doing a whole lot more on the "love" front than I've seen from other people, and that's how we will know them. Just because a person may not believe in a 6-day creation doesn't make them damned to Hell. And, anyway, I'm going to let God be the judge of who is saved and who is not. That's not my place, and it certainly isn't yours.
     
  5. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Where has Scott said anything about anyone who denies the doctrines you speak of above?? Please tell us so that we know you are not full of vitriol and anger for no reason.</font>[/QUOTE]Larry,

    Read the thread on "The Modernest Christ versus The Christ" and Scott's post on page one in "Not as pleasing men, but God." And see the post he just posted on this page.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    As the song says, "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love; Yes, they'll know we are Christians by our love."
     
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    I didn't say you said I was going to hell. I just said that you judged me. However, since you think a man must make Jesus "Lord of his life" to be saved and since you don't think I've done that, you should, by your standard, think I'm going to hell.

    You do believe that some people are going to hell, don't you?

    I can agree with this, but we were talking about doctrinal differences, not musical forms. I didn't know you had switched horses on me in the middle of the stream. ;o)

    You have reduced the statement "Jesus is Lord" to nothing other than a rote repitition of a word. It is not enough to just say you believe Jesus is Lord or even to believe that there is some "Lord" named Jesus. Even the Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses believe that "Jesus is Lord."

    You must believe that Jesus is the Christ - that is the one who fulfilled the Old Testament prophesies made of Christ. How can a man that doesn't even believe the Old Testament was true or made any prophecies about Christ or disbelieved the prophecies it did make possibly be a believer? As Jesus oh so explicitly said,

    "Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"

    I'd like to hear your answer to Jesus' question. LOL!

    What do you do with those who will say to Jesus in the day of judgment, "Lord, lord" to whom he will say, "depart from me ye that work iniquity, I never knew you."

    How can it possibly be said that men who openly deny the word of God are "doing a whole lot more on the 'love' front." Love is when we believe and obey God. Love is when we walk in the truth that we have heard from the beginning.

    No, the liberals don't have love. The have hatred. Hatred for God, hatred for His people, hatred for the lost, and hatred for their own souls.

    May God have mercy on your poor benighted soul!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  8. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Does it not bother your conscience to so totally wrench what someone said? I didn't say "I don't care" about people. I said I don't care what people think of me.

    It grieves me too, but what am I to do about it? Pine my life away? Jesus told his disciples that when they had proclaimed the truth,

    "let your peace return to you."

    This may be true in some cases. But I know, from personal experience both on the internet and in person, that some people just want to pat you on the back and so "you go" but aren't willing to stick there own neck out lest they get it whacked.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Are we having fun here, yet? Let's be careful who we call "what" and, just to please ME, if you say that xyz said something, give a guotation. Okay?

    The only way we will "continue steadfast" is not by love or tolerance, but by fidelity to doctrine. Let's focus our attention there, not on each other.
     
  10. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    KenH,

    And as another song said,

    "All we need is love, love; love is all we need."

    Excuse me while I go puke!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    KenH,

    And as another song said,

    "All we need is love, love; love is all we need."

    Excuse me while I go puke!

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]A most interesting thing to puke at. To quote someone else: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

    No one to my knowledge said anything about having only love. It is unfortunate that you failed to recognize that. While I have no idea what Ken meant, I do have a pretty idea of what Christ meant. It would be helpful for us to show it in our speech. To quote another often quote man: Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
     
  12. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I believe that the vast majority of Christians have perverted the Word of God by not fulfilling the great comission in practice. They are simply living a creedal faith and not a genuine saving faith written in the hearts of men and women as James talks wbout. They are simply hearers and not doers. If the church today were actually discipling people and reproducing itself we would not have such lethargy and serious decline in spiritual things in the churches.

    God's work is eternal business not a job for a paycheck. Discipling others is not about delievering a message on Sunday. It is not just the preachers busineess. It is not a class relegated to another Sunday School class or another intellectual study. It is about reaching others for Christ.

    We talk about adversity in America and the direction it is going. That is nothing compared to what the early disciples faced in their efforts to spread the good news of Jesus. They were successful. But they gave their lives. It was not a big shot in the arm idea on Sunday. It was real genuine discipleship. The early disciples gave their lives and taught others to walk by faith. They leave it up to chance. They didn't leave the responsibility that the Holy Spirit gave them up to God (Acts 20)
     
  13. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson Active Member

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    I never said that I don't think you've done that - you're putting words in people's mouths again.

    Absolutely - those who do not place Jesus Christ as Lord of their lives will go to Hell.

    You switched it - I said in my initial post that "I believe that God has called us to worship Him in spirit and truth - and that this worship can take many different forms."

    I absoutely have not - we have to many people who say it just to say it and don't live it out.

    In studying the doctrine of salvation, the idea that Jesus is Lord trumps the idea that Jesus is the Messiah - I'd get into more detail, but church is starting soon!

    Read that in context, and it will make sense.

    Pastor Larry answered this.

    And this is a terrible thing for you to say, mostly because they show more love for the lost than you do.

    My soul is not poor, as God has already had mercy on me.

    Mark Osgatharp [/QB][/QUOTE]
     
  14. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    KenH,

    And as another song said,

    "All we need is love, love; love is all we need."

    Excuse me while I go puke!

    Mark Osgatharp
    </font>[/QUOTE]A most interesting thing to puke at. To quote someone else: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

    No one to my knowledge said anything about having only love. It is unfortunate that you failed to recognize that. While I have no idea what Ken meant, I do have a pretty idea of what Christ meant. It would be helpful for us to show it in our speech. To quote another often quote man: Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Well said, Pastor Larry. With all the disagreements we've had on this board, I've always appreciated your attitude.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  15. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Totally and completely off topic, but is anyone else here unfortunate enough to be the "right" age to recognize this as a Beatles song?
    :eek:
     
  16. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    I'm 52 and remember the song well!

    Diane
     
  17. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    I remember it, too.

    Key difference in the lyrics, "ALL you need is love" The Beatles were all too willing to forsake truth in their quest for "love".

    Tim
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Who are the Beatles????? :D

    Wow ... you guys are old ... [​IMG]
     
  19. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp New Member

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    Do words mean anything to you, Scott? If I'm not have a terrible memory failure you have in the past week called me a Jim Jones, a Pharisee, and unloving. And yet you have the gall to say you have not accused me of failing to make Christ Lord of my life!

    When it comes to the matter of being born again there is nothing to live out. Being born again occurs when a man believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior of the world.

    .

    Woah! So are you now saying a man can believe Jesus is "Lord" but not believe Jesus is the Messiah? Are you saying a man can be born again without believing that Jesus is the Messiah? John said,

    "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whsoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father."

    That's pretty plain talk to me.

    I realize there are varying degrees of "liberalism" - but the kind of liberals/modernists which I have been describing don't even believe anyone will be lost. How then can they show love for the lost? Is it love to tell a man he isn't lost when he really is?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
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