Not Replacement...expansion!

EdSutton · Oct 3, 2007

DeafPosttrib said:

Excellent information! :thumbs:

I would like to say something on dispensationalism. Premills say millennial kingdom is a very special plan for 'Israel' . They say, Israel is belong to Jews, not Church(Gentiles).

Nothing say anything in the Bible either O.T. or N.T. give any hint that God have more special plan on Jews than Gentiles(Church).

Romans chapter 3 tells us, there is NO difference between Jew and Gentile, both are same. Romans 10:12 telling us, both have the SAME Lord over all.

Church never replaced Israel during in this supposed "Church Age". Neither saying find anywhere in Bible give hint that, God suspended plan for Israel and put it on the shelf for a temporary time till rapture comes, then God refocus on Israel again for Great Tribulation period.

And 'New covenant(testament)' is already fulfilled through Christ's blood by Calvary. Jeremiah 31:31-34 already fulfilled by Calvary, not supposed wait till second advent for millennial kingdom.

That why I reject dispensationalism doctrine, it is unbiblical.

I understand what the Bible teaching of God's plan. There is only one people that God owns. All of these have put their faith on Christ only, no other else.

Benjamin, good job! :thumbs:

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
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1 Now the LORD had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”(Gen. 12:1-3 - NKJV)
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Did the LORD ever make such a promise to any Gentile? Unh-unh!

22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.(Jn. 4:22 - NKJV)
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Did Jesus know whereof He spoke? Uh-huh!

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written:

“ That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”[a](Rom. 3:1-4 - NKJV)
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Did Paul get this wrong? Unh-unh!

6 “For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. 7 The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; (Deut. 7:6-7 - NKJV)
1 “You are the children of the LORD your God; you shall not cut yourselves nor shave the front of your head for the dead. 2 For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. (Deut. 14:1-2 - NKJV)
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Is Israel really a special, chosen people? Uh-huh!

32 Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, (I Cor. 10:32 - NKJV)
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Does the Bible ever differentiate between the Jew, the Greek, and the church, as three distinct groups? Uh-huh!

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[a] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. (Eph. 1:7-10 - NKJV)

2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, (Eph. 3:2-6 - NKJV)

9 and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things; (Eph. 3:9 - ASV)

24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church;
25 whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God,
26 even the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints,
27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (Col. 1:24-27 - ASV)
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Does the Bible teach dispensations? Uh-huh! Sho' do!

So how can dispensationalism be unBiblical? It ain't, even if some carry it beyond Scripture, or get some of it wrong. The principle is Biblical, even if some derivatives of it are not. If one believes the Bible, one has to believe in dispensations, for the Bible does teach them, whether or not it happens to teach a particular and specific theological system as espoused by some individual or group.

Ed

Ed Edwards · Oct 4, 2007

Here are some concise statements I borrowed from
Brother Jerry Falwell's Liberty University.

http://www.liberty.edu/spirituallife/index.cfm?PID=10782

Liberty University: Key Doctrines

Dispensation
1. The method or scheme according to which God carries out his purposes toward men is called a dispensation. Some schools of thought hold to 3, some hold 5 and some hold 7.

Eschatology: The doctrine of the second coming of Christ.

We affirm that the return of Christ for all believers is imminent. It will be followed by seven years of great tribulation, and then the coming of Christ to establish His earthly kingdom for a thousand years. (we hold the pre-millennial view). The unsaved will then be raised and judged according to their works and separated forever from God in hell. The saved, having been raised, will live forever in heaven in fellowship with God.

Tribulation

From the book of Revelation we see there will be seven years tribulation for the world before the kingdoms of the world become the kingdoms of our Lord. This tribulation is for the world and Israel and not for the church who is the bride of Christ.

ISRAEL

A unique nation and a people that are to be considered God people. We believe the Abrahamic covenant of Gen. 12 still applies today and those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father’s
house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
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Note the definition of 'dispensation' given.

"The method or scheme according to which God
carries out his purposes toward men is called
a dispensation."

So say that "dispensation is un-scriptural" is to
say that God cannot carry out his purpose toward
men. Of course, anybody can say any specific
dispensational doctrine is right or wrong (according
to how one believes). The
generic 'dispensation is un-scriptural' is totally
wrong.

drwthohh · Oct 4, 2007

Benjamin said:

Please excuse my poor manners drwthohh, let me first welcome you to the board. BTW, what does your name stand for if I may ask?
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It stands for "David Rand With The Hair On His Hand" - DRWTHOHH, a crazy nickname one of my college friends gave me. :laugh:

Benjamin said:

Concerning Romans the way I see it:

“All Israel shall be saved” can not be speaking of those who were cut off for unbelief as salvation comes by faith. In the context of these chapters we have Paul saying earlier in 9:6 “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” and in v7 that not all are the children of Abraham. There is only one definition that will fit for Romans 9:6 and that is belief/unbelief as that is what constitutes true Israel (the faithful); how can this be a matter of pedigree? This is further seen in Mathew 3:9-10:
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Are you supposing that the average dispensationalist believes that every ethnic Jew will be saved simply because of their DNA? That's certainly not what I am saying. Many Jews will perish because they have not believed.

What I believe the Bible is saying is simply that God still has a remnant (whether present or in the future) of ethnic Jews for whom He has a specific special purpose. When the time comes, this remnant will believe in their Messiah. The rest who still refuse to believe will be cut off just as unbelievers in the past were.

Benjamin · Oct 4, 2007

drwthohh said:

It stands for "David Rand With The Hair On His Hand" - DRWTHOHH, a crazy nickname one of my college friends gave me. :laugh:
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Hmm, I see! :smilewinkgrin:

What I believe the Bible is saying is simply that God still has a remnant (whether present or in the future) of ethnic Jews for whom He has a specific special purpose. When the time comes, this remnant will believe in their Messiah. The rest who still refuse to believe will be cut off just as unbelievers in the past were.
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What do you think this (pedigreed?) remnants special (present or future) purpose to be?

drwthohh · Oct 5, 2007

Benjamin said:

What do you think this (pedigreed?) remnants special (present or future) purpose to be?
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Good question. I believe the best answer is found in your originally posted article (I have highlighted the part that specifically answers your question):

Benjamin said:

Spiritual Israel is made up of Jews and Gentiles submitting to the King of Israel. Physical Israel is made up of those who are Jewish, most of whom do not presently submit to the King. All who submit to the King are under His blessing. All who don't submit are not under His blessing and have cut themselves off from any participation in the eternal blessings of the Covenant of Grace. However God certainly seems to have a special place in His heart for the natives of the center of the original borders of the commonwealth, even in unbelief, just as the King of the British Isles would have a special place in his heart for natives of the British Isles and be more upset at their rebellion than at the rebellion of India or Pakistan. But rebellion is rebellion, whether conducted by natives of the home territories or members of the commonwealth. Ultimately, God's glory is at stake. Messiah will re-conquer his original territory for the sake of his own Glory.
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