Now...what about Laity priorities?

Ecclesiology is the biblical doctrine of the church. It does deal with the people, not the building.

 

Where did I say that the church came before the family? I never said that. My point is that there is no biblical support to say that one comes before the other. They are both a part of NT life. I maintain that the NT church, on the basis of the NT descriptions, describe a church that is a priority for ministry and activity for people. The family is best served in teh context of the church and its ministry. The biblical basis for the family not coming before the church is that the Bible nowhere teaches that. When you look at the NT, you see the church. You see very few passages about the family. You see passage after passage about the necessity of involvement in the local church.

My point is that when people devalue the church in favor of the family, they have made a decision that cannot be supported from the text of Scripture. The church and its ministry has, I believe, equal value with the family. No one has yet to give me a valid reason why you should have your family intimately involved in the work of the ministry.

The case is often made, as Bob did above, about people who leave their families at home while they do the work of the ministry. Why? Why not involve your family in the work of the ministry with you?

This is what I would say but I would object to the notion that church can be the first to go when these things appear in conflict.

 

BettyE,
Is what you are trying to discribe the problem that most churches suffer, that being that a small percentage of the laity is doing most of the work all of the time?

The first church I attended was one that taught God, family, church. In that church everyone was focused on how much they do for that church, and that if they felt they did that certain thing for too long, they would certainly "burn-out".

The next church I attended we wern't taught this philosophy. All Sunday school workers had a permanant position. All higher priority jobs were given permanant status, while things like nursery work, church cleaning, and outdoor work was shared. Things like visitation were expected as a Christian duty. Work day participation was a grand event, almost everyone in the church joined in to do various things like repairs, construction, and such. All balanced well, and the Pastor was an example. He was there when we needed him, no days off, family beside him, which they looked at as family time. His children, all 10 of them, were hard workers, and really enjoyed the time spent.

I don't want to get in trouble for this, but we are now in a third church (we moved), but this church holds the God, family, church philosophy. This church also suffers burn-out and the people are too often too busy, or need time off from the church.

Could what is being taught be the problem? Do people tend to follow the Pastors example?

 

Dear Pastor Larry,
You have made good and useful philosophical points, but I do not think you and I are talking about the same things.
The original question was regarding pastors understanding and helping laity deal with priorities. It was my example about the missions vacation. You misunderstood. My point was that the individual deacon or whoever takes his vacation to go on the missions trip, leaving his family at home. He is urged to do this by the accompanying pastor who LATER takes a vacation with his own family while the deacon has to be back at work. In other words, there are pastors who routinely expect sacrifices from their members that the pastors do not themselves make.
Another example I previously noted is that of pastors scheduling to the full their deacons' day off, but do NOT call the pastor on Mon. or Tues.

Of course, this does not describe your individual church. I don't know what percentage of the total it does describe, but it does describe more than a few of my acquaintance. In my opinion, the pastors of the churches it does describe could profitably fine-tune some of their attitudes.
(I am not complaining of my own pastor on this one.)

Speaking very broadly, I don't see over-dedication to jobs as necessarily the problem. My godly grandfather was a deacon for many years. He worked far longer and harder hours on the farm and in the factory than many in modern jobs do now, including my hardworking husband.
But because of different transportation and communication abilities then, actually less was required of him than of my husband in church now.
Many more churches than now had services once to twice a month. Modern technology does not ease our lives, it speeds up our expectations.

One of the effects of being a member of a particular church for a long time as I have been, is that it is harder for me to look out on the congregation on Sunday morning and make broad assumptions about how no one is overburdened with ministry and how no one is doing as much as they should. I look out and see people who are caring for elderly parents in their homes, people who are undergoing chemo or kidney dialysis, deacons who are there all the time, others who are there not nearly as much but have serious ministries in the community. And a lot of ministry is invisible unless you happen to come across it. My husband has never given the pastor a report every time he has done something for the widows on his list.

You are right, PL, that ministry should be a way of life for the family and not a tack-on or the first to go. But I do not think you understand enough the real situations that people come across, or that there ARE too many pastors who place greater burdens on the laity than they themselves would bear. BettyE's pregnancy example is one of the worst I have heard of, granted, but it does happen. And many lesser examples happen all the time.

Karen

 

In answer to Olive Branch,

You know I don't know what my present pastor or church's stand on this is. The positions in our church are always filled. There seems to be volunteers when needed for any and all activities.
The pastor says that the Lord always sends people to fill the needs of the church. Our church has about 500 members. I don't know that anyone has suffered "burn out" or complains. I know that no one is made to feel quilty when they say "no" I can't take on that responsibility.

Your observation is interesting in that I have experienced just the opposite. The church where church first before family was taught was where I saw more so called "burn out", guilt, and resentment.

Sorry, Jonathan..we did get off the track of the thread. I think pastors can teach priorities by example and I believe that, that is what our pastor does.

One more thing, a person's ministry may be working in other areas than the church.

When I was a very young person, I thought that the only way I could serve my God was in church. I finally realized that I can serve my God in every area of my life: Church, family, work, and play.

 

Bette E

Would love to have you as a member of my church. You sound like a level headed lady!

 

Thank you, Hardsheller

 

There is an interesting article on pastoral priorities from Leadership Magazine at:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/bcl/areas/churchvitalsigns/articles/le-021228.html

The principles can be applied to any of us, pastoral or lay.

 

In the passage you have quoted. God is the Head of the church. When I serve God, most of the service is through the church. My family is an important part of the ministry. When I was put in charge of building and running a youth program at the last church, I asked my family to pray and each member had equal input. We all worked at it.

Now as I have been called into pastoral ministry, I prayed with and consulted my family.( my 3 kids range from 10 to 6) They are actively involved and love serving Him with me. As Christ is the head of the family. Ministry is the primary purpose of the Christian family.

sorry posted this before reading whole forum. More on track. We do not have this problem. Our pastor and the staff, model the whole family style of ministry. We have emphasized the fact that God calls people to service that they are equipped to do. As such, if you have a family, then the ministry for the man should fit into the whole families capability.

[ January 14, 2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: j_barner2000 ]