Number Of His Name

Persecution is not God's wrath to come during the tribulation period. The whole point of the great tribulation is for God to pour out His wrath on a world that rejected Him, and to bring the jews back under His wing. The Church has no purpose in the GT.

 

The prophecy in Daniel, like many OT prophecies, refers to more than one future event.

 

Amen. The Church not appointed to wrath as those who reject Christ. The Church will not be here either for, or during, the Tribulations spoken of in Revelation.

 

The persecution Paul was warning Timothy of was persecution by man. This is not the wrath of God we see in Revelation.

That does not speak of Salvation there. I believe that verse is speaking of the 144,000 who are sealed by God who will not be hurt by the wrath of God poured out.

You are incorrect. God's Word tells of the righteous dead being resurrected 1,000 years prior to the wicked dead being resurrected. The Word of God declares the Church is not going to go through that wrath of the Great Tribulation.

Pre-trib Christians are prepared. They are the one's who have placed their faith in Christ. Christ is their preparation. He is their escape from the Tribulation to come.

 

Amen, SIster Marcia -- You are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

 

Yeah. sorry your wrong. Just read history and documents of the period. I've looked at the whole consept of the "trail of blood" and its not accurate nor provable. I prefer facts not assumptions. Especially, when assumptions espouce a particular view point contrary to other verifiable facts to the contrary. Constantine never set up the Catholic Church. As a matter of Fact the christian churches were refered to as Catholic back with Ignatius.

 

That does not say they came out of the Tribulation after the Rapture, it says they came out of great tribulation. Martyrs down through the centuries have come out of great tribulation.

 

I would be glad to tell you which one if you first define them for me. As far as Revelations. I contend that it does matter. My point is that they are all the same type of literature and must be looked at from that perspective. Psalms for instance is poetry and can be reviewed that way. Does it deminish their truth? No. 1 Enoch, Assumption of Moses, and "those other non -canonical books" are apocalyptic literature. Sure this type of literature can predict two events or more. Keep in mind if you read Eusebius you find that the emperor Caius also errected statues of himself in the temple at Jerusalem which caused a serious problem leading to the destruction of the temple and the city. This could be what Jesus was referring to. I just find that I will not become dogmatic about revelations because it often is so often misinterpreted and taken literally at points that it should be taken figuratively. For instance. Numbers in the ancient world revers to an imagry rather than always a quantitative almount. So 7 is the completeness of God's working in the world. 10 is a number representing fullness. So, 7*10 = 70 or Fulness of what or when Gods work is complete relating to a matter. So the other work give us a guide in understanding the type of literature. Much like Poetry has a meter or rythem to it that helps understand the poem or psalm.

 

Follow the kingdoms. If not Antiochus IV then what about the roman emperor. I mentioned from Eusebius. He reign 3 1/2 years and errected statues of himself. Christians were sorely persecuted under his rule as were the Jews. So you see. I follow the empires that Daniel mentions and you either come up with Antiochus IV or Caius. You really have to bend Daniel to come up with sometime way in the future unless prophesy can relate to two events.

 

To Antiaging by Ed:
The scriptures show you to be incorrect.

Revelation 7:9, &:13-14
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ...
Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


I was in the Military (Air Force) 1963-1967. The USofA was fighting a war in VIETNAM. I had friends that died in Vietnam, I have friends wounded in Vietnam. I never went to Vietnam. I tracked planes to Vietnam and back. I never went to Vietnam.

I was one who came out of Vietnam, I have all the honors due one who went to Vietnam, I never when into Vietnam, I was one who came out of Vietnam.


These are the Hundreds of Millions* of Saints that died IN CHIRST through the Church Age (AD33 to 2008+) and were Resurrected before the Tribulation Period started and the Sints that were alive IN CHIRST when the Lord appeared to take His own Before the Tribulation Period Started.

*the number of Saints are uncountable. But the minimum has to be 200,000,000 (200 Million) for that number is mentioned in Revelation.

 

I actually have a copy of Fox's book of Martyrs at my bedside. I enjoy reading it for it give me inspiration. As for the Council of Trent. There is a disagreement with how that council reads. One word that says exterminate and onther that says expell from the land. The inquisition was brutal for those suffering under it. I wonder how many catholics suffered under Oliver Cromwell? Or Queen Elizabeth I. How many properties were taken by Henry the VIII? So there was intolerable crulety on both ends. Alberto Rivera is a fraud! He actually came out of a pentecostal splinter group from tennessee called the Church of God of Prophesy. A splinter group off of this one actually handles snakes and drinks arsenic. He has been brought up on charges for extortion. I wouldn't believe too much in Jack Chick who is a recluse and see Jesuit spies on every corner. Most phychologist would regard his behavior as paranoid. I use to like his comics and I'm sure there have been some profit from them but they are also a danger. How many pastors and other christians wanting to share the good news left a tract at a table in a restaurant and not a tip? I don't consider that sharing the good news of Jesus Christ. I don't build doctine around a comic strip. No matter how entertaining.

 

Daniel 12: 1-2 speaks of one Resurrection. I will speak of Five (but not all):

\o/ Praise be to Hashem \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/​

Five Resurrections:
Found in the Holy Bible Compared and Contrasted

(last revised 30 Nov 2007,
first written in Sept 1991 -
'Contract on America' was a
political item in the election of 1992)

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Rapture1: like a Resurrection1 only of a living person.
Resurrection1: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation (Period): AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
--Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
--Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
--Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogatory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list
[how resurrection #1 can get you
from #5 (Resurrection of the unjust)
to #3 (Resurrection of the just) ]:

Romans 10:9 (TNIV2006 = Today's New
International Version):

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved.

407 years earlier:
Romans 10:9 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
For if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus,
and shalt beleeue in thine heart, that God raised him
vp from the dead, thou shalt be saued:


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints (mostly Gentiles)
I define this as Rapture2 = the pre-tribulation resurrection1 + rapture1.
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 31 Mar 2008;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints (mostly Israeli)
I define this as Resurrection2 = the post-tribulation resurrection1 + rapture1
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the end of time
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

CAVEAT: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us nor
by our understanding of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture (From the Scripture.
This is an example of how to let Scripture
interpret scripture). Note that the order:
First Fruits, Harvest, Gleanings, & Tares may
not be strictly specified in the Bible, but that
is how things are done in the real world.
Here is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the 1. Resurrection of Jesus was a precursor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just precede the resurrection
of the unjust /#5/ ).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
clearly notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarly
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that at least resurrections #3 and #4 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque

 

There are many such prophecies that point to more than one event. Is 7.14 is one - it predicted a woman in that time and was also used in the NT as a reference to Mary and Jesus.

Is 52 speaks of Israel as the suffering servant but also refers to Christ.

See this:
http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/gap.htm (excerpt below)

 

No, the church will not go through that, but some will be saved during the tribulation. At least, that is one view.

 

Why do you keep calling it Revelations? It's the Revelation to John. It takes away from your credibility to call it by the wrong name, I hope you realize. :wavey:

I agree they may be the same type of literature, but one is a revelation from God and is God's word and the others are not.

Ooops, "revelations" again! I agree we should not be dogmatic about it, but I can't compare it to non-canonical literature as though it's on the same level as them.

I have to disagree. If God wanted us to know that these numbers meant something, he would give an indication. But there is very little indication in the biblical text to go on - not enough imo to say 7 means completeness, 10 means this, 12 means that, etc.

 

I would have to agree here.

Jesus cast 7 devils out of Mary Magdalene. To say that 7 always means completeness, then Mary would have been complete when she was tormented by those devils.

And we know there is no completeness without Jesus Christ.