NUTS FOR ARMINIANS TO CRACK

bbnewton,
My understanding of original sin?

From conception to the first act of sin, the human is SINLESS! Therefore, NOT A SINNER!

However, Because the human through Adam has a propensity to sin, The race of humanity is no longer pure and Holy As God made Adam. When God finished creating Adam, Adam was without sin, but not without the other characteristics of God's image. That image of God includes the Attributes of God, minus the OMNI-Attributes. That is, Man has the attributes of Grace, Mercy, Justice, Love, etc., and the abilities of reason, judgment, communication, thought, memory, etc., as well as the natural senses that God built into man. All one needs do to prove this is live among SINNERS and it becomes apparent that they have every attribute that a saint has! They may not exercise those attributes very much but they do have them! Not my opinion, but my observation!

One other thing that Adam, a spirit in a flesh housing (as we all are) had, was direct communication with God who is spirit. There was a direct bi-directional link between them. But Adam's sin broke that link.

Adam's sin did not remove any of those attributes that God put into man! But sin did separate man from God by breaking that "always-on", bi-directional link. That is the reason man is "lost". Not lost in the sense that God doesn't know where man is, but lost in the sense that man does not know who or where God is!

IT IS HOW man uses what God has already given him that determines whether or not man commits the acts we identify as sins!

Now because the direct link was broken, it is by faith that we are convinced there is a God! Not one of us living today, knows absolutely there is a God! Hense we have faith, which is the substance of our hopes and the evidence that what we cannot see exists. You do not know there is a heaven or hell, you do not know that there is a God, and You do not know that there are angels. But you can have faith that all that the scriptures provide is a reality that you will one day experience first hand. Until then, Keep the faith baby!

 

Well Me2,

You would have to go and spoil things now woudn't you. We were talking about Jesus' parable of the wedding feast, not the Revelation passage you quote.

 

Bro, Dallas,
Eladar is correct!

Why don't you trust the words of Jesus?


Never mind, I already know. Jesus does not fit into your theology.

 

Jesus told this parable to Jews who would have understood the wedding guests to receive their garments from the master of the house. That is the context of the parable, that is the context of Jesus' words, that is plain and simple, Many are called but few are chosen.

Simple, the words of Jesus that I am not ignoring.

Bro. Dallas

 

Sir,
I am curious, is what you wrote a matter of your own personnal interpretation or do you quote from commentaries that you are in agreement with to make your thesis?

MA

 

I never heard an Arminian make a claim that they had any power to come to Christ on there own. I've only heard Calvinist claim that this is what they believe.

Actually verse 10 describes them perfectly;
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'd say they made there own bed.These men were Jews and rejected Christ as there messiah.

As far as I know Arminians do not have any such doctrine. They do believe they have a choice in there Salvation. Because God granted them that Choice.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Are not all men saved by Christ, servants of HIM?. We are all slaves to something, aren't we?
Freedom I believe is a state of mind, I've never been free from sin. Being saved is to make us free eventually from sin, but while on this earth in these earthly bodies we still sin. We are not free from sin as yet. If we were we would no longer sin.

No. That would be like saying that man willed that God give us our will. It was God's will in the first place to give us the Choice of Salvation.

Number 8 is the same as #6 and there is no 7

Part 1 of this double question answer; Yes and it is God's will that man have a choice Duet. 30:19
2nd question answer; If He didn't there would be no answered prayer.

Answer to first question; Yes answer to second;
No. His heart is change but his will is left intact otherwise we would no longer sin.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

No. Why would anyone think that God is so unatractive that He would have to make people love Him unwillingly?

We have to believe in order to have everlasting life. By the way everlasting life isn't given to man until the Lord says well done my good and fatihful servant.
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Actually He came to save the lost. According to;
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Christ only knocks on the door He doesn't tear it down.We have to open that door this is our decision. Remember the heart who's door he knocks on, is one who is lost otherwise, He would already be inside.

Salvation is by Grace because He chose us first and with our faith we believe unto Salvation. Christ desevers all the praise because He first chose.

No. You keep insisting that we save our selves. If Christ throws out the life line and we grab hold of it in faith, how is it that we save our selves?, when it is Christ who must dragg us in.

May God bless you;
Mike

 

Yelsew,

You need to broaden your allegorical imaginations.
(For some reason, I dont think you would have cared too much for the way Jesus expressed himself. )

Mat 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.

God doesnt "add a piece" of wedding garment to mans burial clothes. He gives a completely brand new set of wedding garments to man.

***

Me2

 

quote:
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1) If all sinners possess will and power to come to Christ, why did Christ say (John 6:44), "No man can come unto Me except the Father which hath sent Me draw him?"
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I never heard an Arminian make a claim that they had any power to come to Christ on there own. I've only heard Calvinist claim that this is what they believe.


It is precisely this that is the point, most of what is seen here is not 'arminianism' but pelagianism. Arminianism recognizes the inability of carnal man to 'come' to Christ of his own will. This is because Arminianism recognizes the will is not free, but in bondage to sin. This does not mean that man cannot be a 'free' moral agent, doing good among the brotherhood of man; but that even this good is not recognized as the righteousness of God, which is in Christ alone.

Bro. Dallas

 

That is to be expected from one who does not know where faith comes from!

Me2, I have no difficulty with the words of Jesus, I understand them quite well. but I don't understand your words because you are going well beyond what Jesus was saying.

You want us all to convert to Universalism and that simply is not going to happen! There is entirely too much evidence that you are not willing to deal with that refutes universalism completely.

You are too willing to accept the words of others as Gospel, YET there is but one gospel, and the whole of the Gospel is given in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The rest of the new testament deals with Christian lifestyle.

So go on with your universalism as you wish, but I am not gullible enought to fall for it!

 

Yelsew2,

wow! is this what you got out of my last post?

I was pointing towards Mankind receiving a completely different spirit than the cursed spirit he received from adam sinning. that carnal man cannot be invited to Gods marriage supper. that mankind must receive from God a completely different new wedding garment (spirit).

and you got universalism out of those comments?

Wow!

Yelsew, Is this your real name, pelagius

Frogman, you pinned ole pelagus right on target.

seems the ole boy believed he didnt need a resurrected spirit. that adam only fell from grace and didnt affect any other human born of him. that man can drum up his own righteousness from his own faith...

Now who does this sound like? hhmm? Yelsew maybe?

Me2

 

Micahaaron,
I speak from my heart, not someone else's heart!

I have over 50 years of reading the Holy Bible, at least 19 different versions, and I do not need the thoughts and ideas of someone else who is just like me, who is in the same boat that I am, to tell me whether or not I am reading the bible correctly. I have read bits of some commentaries only to find the author completely off base with what the scripture actually says, and I simply do not trust my eternal destiny to anyone who puts their trousers on in the same manner that I do.

I do not need a Seminary Educated person to interpret God's Holy Word, I have the Holy Spirit to Guide me in understanding the thoughts being expressed. I have no need of a greek, hebrew, or aramaic sholars to interpret for me, that has been done a thousand times before, with very little change in over a thousand years.

God gave me the very same stuff, that he gave to every other human walking the face of the earth! My interpretation is just as good as any writer of a commentary, My research is just as good as any researcher.

I hope that answers your question. I am a man that accepts the way that God made man and I do not accept what man tries to do to man! That is of the devil and I do not countenance that at all! Some people call that Pelagian, if that's the pigeonhole you want to stick me in that is your business, but you will be wrong to do so.

 

If that is what you want to believe that's fine. But the fact is that some people do seek God as a way out of their circumstances. They cry out as Peter did, "Lord Save me". Guess what? God hear their prayer and does in all truth answer their cry. I would question Romans 3 to see who Paul is talking about!

I stand by my answer!

 

He doesn't send them to hell for sins, he sends them to hell because they lack faith! They attempted to come to the wedding feast dressed in their filthy rags, instead of being washed whiter than snow in the blood of the lamb!

 

You have been saying all along that mans spirit is removed and the spirit of christ is put in its place. That is FALSE DOCTRINE! Man's spirit is not removed, it is reborn! Same spirit, different character!