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NUTS FOR ARMINIANS TO CRACK

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by BrotherJoe, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Mike,

    Hello once again.

    YOU: Faith is that which God gives as a reward for listening to His word

    ME: If the above is true, then God must choose whom he gives this reward to, correct?

    Brother Mike, how do you believe one gets eternally saved?

    Take care,

    Brother Joe
     
  2. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    How do you identify or better, define "listening to his Word?

    There are many who listen over and again with no evidence of regeneration outwardly shown to anyone.

    Bro. Dallas :confused:
     
  3. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Yelsew,


    YOU: Why salvation for only "an elect"?

    ME: Brother Yelsew, do you think more people would go to heaven if it were depended upon the will of man or the will of God?

    Also, would you feel more comfortable if your eternal destiney was in God's hand or your own?

    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  4. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    To every Christian brother on this board,

    I think the following passages are very relevant to this issue of how one becomes regenerated. I ask anyone who has time to read them, and try to identify who is the solely active participant in these passages and what exactly that particpant does. Comments and responses are welcomed!

    "For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." (Ezekiel 36:24-27)

    What is the new covenant?

    "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah 31:33-34)


    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  5. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Yelsew,

    YOU: FAITH in GOD is what saves, not faith in the "good news".

    ME: Brother Yelsew, lets follow your conclusion above to its logical end- if faith in God is what saves then ultimatley even the devils will be in heaven! Why? Scripture tells us, "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)

    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  6. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    Bro Joe,
    What do you say is the purpose of "the BODY OF CHRIST"?

    I say it is to be the physical part of the Christ in the world today. To do what the Christ would be doing if He were here among us. So the amount of people who go to heaven is in the most part a factor of what the Body of Christ is doing in the world today. And it seems to me the present physical body of Christ is being pulled apart as if it were on the cross.

    So to answer your question, it was by the work of the Body of Christ that I came to faith in God. So I must respond that the numbers increase as the church works, and decrease as the church sleeps. SO WAKE UP! God expressed his will by establishing the Body of Christ! The work of the Body of Christ is "Go, make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit." As a part of the Body of Christ I am doing my part, so that others can come to faith in God as I did. AND ITS WORKING, two more since Sunday, have come to faith because I told them the truth and they recognize it to be the truth, they believe and Have Confessed Jesus to be their savior. They are now "Born Again" and gaining FAITH through hearing God's word. The Word of God is Mightier than a two edged Sword!

    My eternal destiny is in my own hands and that is why I am working so hard, Praying so hard, and gaining ever more faith.
     
  7. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Dallas,

    YOU: Still, after 96 posts, missing the whole nut.

    ME: I agree brother Dallas. lol.

    I just want to say I enjoy your posts...your doctrine is almost identical to us Primitive Baptists! The Elder from my church informed me that you some times post on our Primitive Baptist board and are requesting prayer for a church that is starting up or has started?? I will pray for you on this. Have a good day!

    Brother Joe
     
  8. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    What do you think FAITH is?

    FAITH is belief SUSTAINED. Strong faith and Strong Belief are exactly the same thing. Two names for the same thing! Imagine that! But we do it all the time! Car and Automobile, Car and Chevrolet, Car and Hotrod....All the same just different names. Faith and belief Same thing just different names.
     
  9. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    Believing that there is one God, is not the same as Believing IN THAT ONE GOD. Jesus was talking to Jews who believe that there is one God. Many of them believe in God, but do not have saving faith in Him. That was Jesus POINT! So don't use that "the devils also believe" stuff on me! It don't wash!
     
  10. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    To all,

    If (as the Bible proclaims) all mens hearts are "desperatly wicked" (see Jeremiah) in their unregenerated state, then why do some people accept the gospel and others dont?


    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  11. BBNewton

    BBNewton New Member

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    "My eternal destiny is in my own hands and that is why I am working so hard, Praying so hard, and gaining ever more faith."


    Yelsew,

    My heart sank as I read your last post. I will keep you in my prayers. If I have been harsh or unloving to you I apologize, for I am to be gentle and humble in heart. I often fall short of this. I pray for that day when you will be able to exclaim with me as Paul stated so beautifully:

    But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. (1 Cor. 15:10)
     
  12. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    Me2,

    WRONG! Man is spirit that dwells in a physical body! It is the spirit of man that quickens the flesh, not the other way around. When the flesh dies, the spirit of man lives on to either pass from death unto life everlasting, or to face judgment and the second death!

    When you gonna connect the dots Me2? Your knowledge of man is so wrong!
     
  13. Yelsew2

    Yelsew2 New Member

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    ILUVLIGHT,
    I've never considered connecting faith to the weather before, do you have scriptural support for that?
     
  14. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Believing that there is one God, is not the same as Believing IN THAT ONE GOD. Jesus was talking to Jews who believe that there is one God. Many of them believe in God, but do not have saving faith in Him. That was Jesus POINT! So don't use that "the devils also believe" stuff on me! It don't wash! </font>[/QUOTE]yelsew2, in the post just prior to this you state that faith and belief are the same thing, then you say in this post they are like a chevrolet and a uh..horse and buggy??

    Really, I am also confused about the 'work of the church'. You place too much confidence in men or the works of men.

    Rest in Christ and him alone. If he were among us today, we would probably crucify him again, I mean, come on, he who hath ears let him hear, why we all have ears, this man must be mad.

    Since we do all have ears, how come some don't hear? Since we all do have eyes, how come some don't see? (John 3, except ye be born again).

    Back to the beginning, that from above, and from the beginning, regeneration, then faith, no other way.

    Can a man bring something clean out of an unclean thing? Even in your theology you admit man has a propensity to sin, why would he not lean upon this propensity, to sin for a season (even a lifetime) is much more pleasurable than to be 'religious'.

    I do hope the two you speak of have a real experience of Grace. There are many people who are working as you do out of fear of losing what is not even theirs to lose. Don't work for Christ because of fear of him, but for love for him.

    How else is his yoke easy and his burden light?

    Please, don't confuse making a 'disciple' a student as being the same as imparting eternal life.

    Only God can do the latter and only that work will make a disciple.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT Guest

    Hi Frogman;
    What is circumcision of the heart? if not the softening of it caused by conviction. This is not regeneration.

    Hi Brother Joe;
    I confess we are first chosen and we are drawn as in Jn6:44. It's what we are chosen for and that's for a choice to either believe or not to believe. We are offered Salvation. Christ knocks at the door if we open it He then comes in and dwells inside of us Rev 4:20 Many are offered few accept the offer of Salvation Duet 30:19 this choice is for life eternal which is the reward for accepting Christ.

    From frogman;
    Yes this is true and I believe there will be many there in heaven, that I didn't expect. Not to say all who hear will be saved,because not all will accept Christ. Certainly those who show no evidence could be the ones who worketh not, but believe. Will you say they are lost?
    I'm sorry but making such judgements could be dangerous. We don't know who's name is written in the book of life. Why be involved in speculation about something we can't know until the day of the white thrown judgement?

    From Brother Joe;
    Not one of them say just how it takes place for gentiles.
    Election came to all Jews but not all Jews are saved. Most don't know the Torah as well as I do which isn't saying much I'm just an amateur.
    May God Bless You All With Peace;
    Mike
     
  16. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Thank you Brother Joe for your prayers. If you can access the FGF messages you will learn where I differ.

    You have touched on it somewhat in your post from Ezekiel;

    The other is that I believe all the elect will come to the knowledge of Christ.

    That is not the topic(s) under discussion here though and for practical purposes I am in agreement that regeneration is worked completely by the Holy Spirit,(I believe this is true even if one believes the gospel must be heard) that gospel preaching serves to awaken the elect to repentance.

    But that repentance is first and results in regeneration I cannot say, I believe except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. The seeing is what I make to be the realization of the need for repentance.

    I also cannot say when the regeneration occurs (vs. 8). But I think any possessing this regeneration will be led to repentance and belief of the gospel (2 Thess. 2.13-14 imho teach this).

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  17. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Mike,

    ME: I think the following passages are very relevant to this issue of how one becomes regenerated.


    YOU IN RESPONSE: Not one of them say just how it takes place for gentiles

    ME: So you believe there are two different ways to become regenerated, one for the Jews and a different one for the gentiles? Please explain.

    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  18. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Yes this is true and I believe there will be many there in heaven, that I didn't expect. Not to say all who hear will be saved,because not all will accept Christ. Certainly those who show no evidence could be the ones who worketh not, but believe. Will you say they are lost?
    I'm sorry but making such judgements could be dangerous. We don't know who's name is written in the book of life. Why be involved in speculation about something we can't know until the day of the white thrown judgement?

    From Brother Joe;
    Not one of them say just how it takes place for gentiles.
    Election came to all Jews but not all Jews are saved. Most don't know the Torah as well as I do which isn't saying much I'm just an amateur.
    May God Bless You All With Peace;
    Mike
    </font>[/QUOTE]What difference is there in the circumcized as opposed to the uncircumcized? Is it not more than a softening?

    I believe the effectual call is made by irresistible grace. (Ps. 110.3).

    I believe the ears of those who are previously dead in trespasses and sins are opened.

    I believe all for whom Christ died will be drawn to God through him by the Holy Spirit. I do not believe there is one that shall fail to be saved, I do not believe God is hoping that some will believe, nor that the gospel preacher will raise enough financial support to carry the gospel into the dark corners of the world.

    I beleive to hang our hopes on anything less than the grace of God, then there will be none saved and all are lost even as we speak.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  19. micahaaron

    micahaaron New Member

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    I've never considered connecting faith to the weather before, do you have scriptural support for that? </font>[/QUOTE]Answer is found in the gospels, with Jesus and the disciples in the boats with the bad weather. Jesus rebuked the storms and questioned their faith.
     
  20. BrotherJoe

    BrotherJoe New Member

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    Brother Dallas,

    I believe we both have a common belief in regard to regeneration. As for the subject of wether all of Gods elect will hear the gospel before death, I do not believe they all will (though I certainly respect your opposing belief.) The main reason I have come to this conclusion is because if one takes the opposite view (i.e. that all the elect WILL hear the gospel prior to death), then to stay consisten they must also conclude that all infants who die in infancy and the mentally handicap go to Hell. Judging from what we know from the Bible of the nature of God, I do not believe he would allow this to happen. After all, we do have a high priest, "Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity" (Hebrews 5:2)

    Also, I believe their are and have been many sincere people throughout history who worship God in other lands were the gospel hasnt been preached or heard, yet they worshipped the best they knew how. I believe to conclude these people were unregenerated because they never heard the gospel goes against scriptures such as, "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:34-35)

    Though many or some people may have never heard the word of God, or had the privelage of having a Bible, or never new God's written law, scripture nonetheless tells us, " For there is no respect of persons with God.(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. ****** For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts"******** (Romans 2:11,13-15)

    Finally, I must state while this doctrine is important, I do not think differences of opinions on it should warrant great divisions in the body of Christ and I think you too would agree. Take care and God bless you Brother Dallas.

    Brother Joe
     
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