Obab

Simply ask the question "If a person is born again can he be unborn?"

 

Neither Adam nor Lucifer had to be "uncreated" to fall into condemnation.

The person who is bornagain and then is "severed from Christ and fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 must be "born again".

In Matt 18 when the unforgiving - yet forgiven servant refuses to forgive others his lord does NOT say "you refuse to forgive others because I tricked you -- I did not really forgive you so you WERE doing to others what I did you" -- as much as OSAS likes to imagine otherwise.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The problem here is that you are trying to take a parable about forgiveness and twisting it to refer to salvation. Jesus is not illustrating salvation; He is illustrating the need to extend forgiveness to our fellowman. That is why it is unwise to base doctrine on parables alone.

 

Jesus concludes at the end of the parable "so shall my Father do to each one of you IF you do not forgive your brother from your heart" --

The "so" in this case is a reference to the "forgiveness revoked" detail in the parable.

So when Christ tells a parable "illustrating forgiveness revoked" and goes on to state outside the parable that this 'revoking of forgiveness" detail seen in the parable is exactly that part that will be done in real life to those who refuse to forgive others AS they have really been forgiven -- we conclude He literally means that warning to be taken as fact.

in Christ,

Bob

 

The example in this parable is not the wicked servant; it is the goodness, mercy, and forgiveness of our heavenly Father. We are not to exemplify the man, but rather exemplify the Lord.

The truth of this parable in no way presents losing one's salvation. It is to declare that all men are great sinners but, even so, God is merciful to forgive us. It is to illustrate that, by comparison, our offense toward men is trivial when compared to our offense toward God, and so we should forgive them willingly. If we do not, there is a consequence. God 's forgiveness to us is in direct proportion to our forgiveness of others. That is the lesson. You'll find a host of Scripture to support this position, but none to support forgiveness revoked.

Mt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

Since you seem to want to claim this is NOT OSAS -- explain how in your view - the "born of God" are lost in some cases.

 

Sadly "Adam the son of GOD" is the statement of Scripture in Luke 3. I can keep quoting it and you can keep repretending that Adam was not in the family of God -

But at LEAST your doublespeak in that latest post shows that while you wanted to pretend this is not just another OSAS thread -- it in fact (obviously) is.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Galations 5:4 has nothing to do with losing ones salvation. Paul is telling the Galations that they have been made free from the law but were going back "under the yoke of bondage", that being the law.

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Gal. 3:3)
"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal. 3:5)

They were doing one of the worst trade in deals in history. Grace for law.

They didn't need to be born again and again and ... They needed to be reminded to walk by faith.

"If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Gal. 5:25)"

 

If you have a text showing that savlation is "being severed from Christ" OR if you can show that the lost must first "do something" so that they are then "severed from Christ and fallen from Grace" - then please make an effort to show it is something like Bible fact.

 

Luke 3 - "Adam the son of GOD" is the statement of Scripture in Luke 3.

I can keep quoting it and you can keep repretending that Adam was not in the family of God -

Got any "help lines" left?

 

Am I to understand that Adam was the son of God in the same fashion that Enos was the son of Seth, and in the same fashion that Seth was the son of Adam? Are you saying that Adam was physically born into the family of God as was all the other men listed? Or, could it be that Luke is simply recording that Adam was physically created by God and that there was none before him?

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.(KJV)

 

There is no such thing as "forgiveness revoked." Even after I graduated from seminary I had never heard such a term. The first time that I ever heard this term was from you on this board which leads me to believe that it is solely an SDA "theological" term or phrase. Either way it does not exist; it is not taught in the Bible. As has been demonstrated many times one cannot teach doctrine from a parable, especially when the doctrine is not supported elsewhere in the Bible. And that is clearly the case here.
As Pastor Bob pointed out you are missing the real point of the parable, and inserting your own interpretation and twisted conclustion into it, to make it say what you want, that is, to read your own pre-conceived theology into this parable.

 

GE

I am an OSAS-believer. So I support you in that respect.

But about Galatians -- I cannot accept at all Paul poses the Law against Grace in that Letter, or that Law and Grace are opposed anywhere in Scripture. Christian Faith in the Law is a believing in Jesus Christ the Word of God, the Likeness of God - God Himself The Law. So how ever in all eternity could there be a rivalry between God's revealed Law in Word of Scripture or in Word of the Person of Jesus Christ?

I say only one way: To believe in anything Christian as if the Law of Moses. We - Christians do not , for example, believe the Sabbath (or keep the Sabbath) BECAUSE the Law tells us - commands us, demands of us! No, (if) we - Christians- believe the Sabbath (e.g.) it is because of Jesus Christ - exclusively, or not at all!