Obama/Biden 2008?

Here is the YouTube video "7 kitchen tables"

Instant Historical Classic

 

No. We werent there to salve all the worlds problems. And Iraq and abortion wow how do you make a comparison there.

The end result it it supports abortion even in a limited sense. When you support the choice fo someone to have an abortion that is support of their decision.

All truth about sin is narrow. The slaughter of human beings to many other sins is not comparable. And doing so only shows the desensatization in America.

 

Anyone who uses this as an issue just shows the extent their dislike and dishonesty control their political understanding. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that Biden was simply saying that at the time, he was not Obama's pick.

Like Roger says, there are things to disagree with Obama/Biden about, but highlighting things like this show only the extent some will go to to discredit someone they don't like.

 

Your response here proves my point even more.

First of all, the your opinion of the was in Iraq and the way GWB handled it is just that, an opinion, not biblical doctrine.

But now we get down to the truth of the backers of the democratic party. You cite the national debt and the loss of jobs, and the price of oil as reasons to back the democrats. It has always been the rallying cry of democrats that "we are for the working man, and the GOP is for the rich". They keep saying that we are "better off" financially when a democrat is in office. What it boils down to is greed. People vote democrat because they believe they will have more money with a dem in office.

I am not even going to debate the validity of these false statements, but rather look at them from a Christian point of view.

Neither of the above points confirms or denies biblical doctrine, they are just personal preference. Abortion and homosexuality go against the very core of biblical doctrine.

People are putting greed before principle when they support a backer of abortion and gay rights. Let me say this....300 trillion dollars in national debt is worth less than even one babies life that is killed in the womb. There is not enough oil or jobs in the world to replace one of these slaughtered children. And I would rather live in the woods in a shack with my family than to face God knowing that I voted for a man that promotes homosexuality.

It is obvious that money and prosperity are more important to you than biblical principles because your post above used personal gain and money as they basis of your argument for backing the Dems.

So, you choose for yourself, personal greed or biblical principles.

I choose God's principles

AJ

 

No, it doesn't. You know as well as I do that "al Qaeda in Iraq" didn't exist in March 2003. Bin Laden had no respect for Saddam Hussein because Hussein was a secularist.

Invading Iraq was a huge strategic mistake and those who continue to be Bush supporters have been trying to backfill for the past several years to attempt to justify it.

 

Most people who live a homosexual lifestyle do so because they were born that way as a result of the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden. Promoting homosexual civil unions or even homosexual marriage(which I oppose) has little or nothing to do with anyone having a homosexual orientation.

 

He said this just a few months after the successful defeat of Saddam's military. It was obviously an invitation to Al Qaeda.

 

I don't think McCain will pick Huckabee. Although I personally like Huckabee, I believe he would be a disaster for the republicans in November.

 

Save Money

As I've said before my local Paper has a "Sound Off" area Here's one from Today's I thought was thought provoking at the least.

A former president receives a pension of $191,300 a year until age 80.

If the next president lives to age 80, McCain would already be 80 after his second terms and would receive zero. Obama by age 80 would receive $4,9773,800 Let's save money.

 

Actually no, I cite these as reasons to support change. I don't belong to either political party. I vote for who I feel is the best candidate and not along idealogical notions that a title or label makes you worthy of my vote. I voted for GW on his first run and Reagen though I later got a bad taste for Reagenomics.

Actually you're wrong here also. We all know when big business does well then the profits should eventually trickle down to the common man. When companies do exceptionally well they also seem to afford a little fat on the payroll which employs even more Americans. However, if you send me job overseas, well, now I don't even have a job or the means to provide for my family. I for one am not looking to be greedy or rich, just a job where I can contribute to the American machine and support my family.

I can agree with this, what I disagree with is when you say this like Abortion and same sex unions are the ONLY biblical principles America should be concerned about.

Again, I fail to see your biblically founded position here. Is it you're so blinded to the cause of abortion and gay rights that you fail to see what impact the failing economy is having on those heterosexuals who are living? It's not greed we're looking for, it is the means to survive. I don't think wanting a piece of bread makes a man greedy.

I can agree with this also, however like Roger pointed out, we put Bush who is pro life in the seat, what did it do? Sure, he put more justices on the supreme bench, now what?

If you knew me one bit you would know how wrong this statement is. This economy has impacted my Church to the point I voluntarily took a pay cut and a second job. I've taken the Churches mortgage payment to buy commodities for the food bank and feeding kitchen. There are now 15 homeless members of our Church and I am proud to say we are doing all we can to rectify their situations. We not only pray for them, I have sat down at their cardboard boxes to find out why they missed service. I take them on job interviews in my own car with them wearing my best Sunday suite which was too big and too short, but hey, I'm trying my best. I've done so many city funerals for free that many of them tell me what to say at their service.

Prosperity, when I say a starving man doesn't care about the plate or the table clothe, I am speaking from first hand knowledge. Prosperity... This is why it pains me to see so many Christians focused so intently for an unborn child and walk past living people who can use their help. Doesn't that remind you of the good Samaritan, so buy going to do "God's work" that we fail to see the work God has for us to do.

 

Actually I am very dissappointed in Bush for flip-flopping on civil unions, and for not trying to get a constitutional amendment against gay marriage.

He did do all he could against RoevWade, and that was to appoint pro-life judges. From what I understand, nothing else can be done besides a reversal by the Supreme Court.

I also am dissappointed in how he has handled the war and the immigration issue.

I am NOT a Bush fan, but my dissappointment with him will not cause me forsake biblical principles and support two full blown, open supporters of gay marriage and abortion.

Besides....Bush is not running in this election, so what does he have to do with Obama/Biden?

Liberals, even christians who vote liberal, are looking for more money in their pockets regardless of what moral standard we have to dip to as a nation.

I refuse to exchange biblical principles for personal prosperity.

AJ

 

I forgot, we value the unborn dieing over our neighbor dieing. There is death in war ad your view death in abortion but one is more of an atrocity then the other.

So if you vote to end social programs, does this mean your in favor of starving the children dependent on those programs? So your saying you can be against welfare and not be in favor of starving children?

Do you have the ranking list for sin's? I want to make sure I stick with the sin's on the bottom of the list. And I think your statement should read the slaughter of unborn human beings since you seem to think it's less of an evil to slaughter those that are out of the womb (starvation or war).

 

Civil unions is not the same as gay marriage and pro choice is not the same as pro abortion.

 

Where is the proof of this? BTW, this would mean nothing. You can have ten houses and if they're all mortgaged to the hilt, your technical net worth could be zero.

Good thing I have more than an ounce :thumbs: Maybe that's what he meant then, maybe not. I couldn't care less. But it's just as fallacious to say he was telling the truth and that's a moral certainty as it is to say he was lying and we know that's the case with a moral certainty.

As for plagarism vs. McCain and how McCain is not a family man, I'm no JSM apologist, but it is troubling to see how many people attack John McCain for having had family failures. I didn't know so many on BB had wings sprouted, ready to fly away. McCain has admitted his failings. I don't recall reading Biden ever apologizing for his. Just FTR. Again, who cares? That was eeons ago. But I plead with folks to be consistent. I know this is BB and that isn't going to happen, but a guy can dream can't he? :tongue3: McCain's past is only relevant if it is his present. Clinton's escapades with Jennifer Flowers were not relevant until you had the incident with Lewinsky. Unless and until McCain has an affair present day, it's out of bounds to bring up something that happened years ago. People care more about the present assault on our liberties, our borders, and the war on terror than they care about smear, Paris Hilton-style politics.

Well...some of us do.

 

I am glad there are people like you and your church that help others. I get angry when our church sees someone in need and they either say "we'll pray for you", or "the church doesnt have any funds right now". When a person is in need, all of us have some funds we can help with as individuals, it doesnt have to be either from the church fund or nothing. I have helped personally several times when the church refused to.

However, where you and I dont agree is what to do about it. I dont believe God is going to bless this nation to the extent that we need, as long as we keep protecting and preserving immorality.

We have many issues that need to be addressed but giving up moral principle to fix those issues will only make things worse.

AJ

AJ

 

Sorry man, but I believe its just rhetoric. If I am supporting a persons "choice" to abort, then I am also supporting their right to abort, and I believe that God gives noone that right.

And civil unions is marriage....they just change the wording to try to make it more digestible for folks with morals. Like "if we dont call it marriage, then they wont know that it is"

AJ

 

Fair statement... :thumbs:

Now to put the thread back on track, the more I learn about Biden the more I think he is good and bad for Obama. He is good for foreign policy and national security but he's been on the hill 30 years and has a loose tongue...

 

"his net worth of $150,000 is decidedly middle class among the millionaire membership of the U.S. Senate"

- www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1465534

 

If you look at the disclosure reports behind these numbers you will see that the $150,000 represents his investments in stock and mutual funds only.

It does not include his house or any other investments or properties. It also does not include his wife's investments or properties.

His house is reported to be worth millions. How did he afford that on his government salary?

http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/CIDsummary.php?CID=N00001669&year=2006