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Obama on the Bible

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by carpro, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member

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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Christians do not mock the Bible as Obama did. However, Moslems and atheists do.
     
  3. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    The narrator of this video claims that Jesus Christ would support war? Come on. He was the Prince of Peace. Extreme right wing evangelicals say that war is justified. Jesus never said that.
     
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>

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    So were David's Psalms for victory sin ?
     
  5. ajg1959

    ajg1959 New Member

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    Sometimes it takes war to obtain peace.

    Besides, how many times did God order His people to war in the OT? Even to kill every living creature including women, children and even animals? If Jesus is The Word, and The Word was here in the beginning, then how can you say that Jesus never supported war?

    BTW, where did Peter get the sword he used to cut off the ear of the soldier in the garden? Is it possible that the apostles were armed, and prepared to defend themselves? Peter was willing to fight to protect Jesus.

    Somehow I dont think that being a Christian means that we dont defend ourselves or that we dont fight against evil, even if it takes war.

    AJ
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    The point of the video was showing how Obama a so called "Christian" mocked the bible.
     
    #6 Revmitchell, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2008
  7. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Kill a commie for peace.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Rather immature.
     
  9. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy New Member

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    I guess you haven't read Rev. 19 lately have you?:tonofbricks:
     
  10. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    If you're comparing the Second Coming of Christ to Bush's war in Iraq you're way off base. In fact, I would take that as sacrilegious.
     
  11. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy New Member

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    No I am not talking about the War in Iraq or President Bush at all and neither were you (until now) according to the context of what you said in the post I first quoted. Here I'll quote you for you again to help you remember:



    Notice, you made no reference to either President Bush or the War in Iraq. You simply made a statement implying that Jesus was/is a total pacificist and that He would never support waging war.

    To which I replied:



    Clearly, in this passage Jesus Himself wages war. Likewise, God commanded war in the OT. Therefore, to claim that all war is wrong or sinful is to impugn God.
     
    #11 Bible-boy, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2008
  12. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    He isn't mocking the Bible, he is stating a fact. He asked which passage of scripture should guide our public policy.

    Should we use the passage on slavery?
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should go back and watch the video again. Your selective memory has worked wonderfully.

    He asked which passage we should use "the one that condones slavery" etc. he was mocking it and it is despicable.
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    Answer the question! Should we use the passages in the Bible that support slavery as a basis for American law today?
     
  15. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy New Member

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    You mean the part where Paul does some pretty heavy arm twisting making it all but impossible for Philemon to do anything other than free Onesimus?
     
  16. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

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    Well, first, it helps if someone has an idea how to read and study the Bible, and how to understand the relationship between the covenants of God, and what the difference is between reporting a narrative and prescribing a command.

    What "the passage on slavery" are you referring to.? Slavery is mentioned all over the Bible, Old and New Testaments. It is regulated in ancient Israel, it is ever-so-gently discouraged for NT believers, but it is never taken on, because that was the economic system of the world then, as it still is in some places even today. The Roman Empire's slave population was huge. The UN estimates that there are 27 million slaves in the world today, and the slave trade has never ceased.

    Then, you have Obama saying he seeks to live by the Sermon on the Mount (proving, of course, that he has never READ the Sermon on the Mount), and he made the hilarious comment about "an obscure passage in Romans" being the only one against homosexual sin, which is wrong on at least two levels--the introduction to Romans is hardly obscure, and there are many NT passages which condemn homosexuality. The circle is completed when you realize that in 1 Timothy 1:9-10, slave traders and murderers of parents are condemned--along with homosexuals.

    The truth is, that the laws of the Western world are largely drawn directly from the Bible. Such basic ideas as recognizing the difference between premeditated murder and manslaughter (Ex 21) are straight from the Bible. True, some of the punishments and specifics are hard for us to grasp, but a thorough study of the history and customs of the Middle East can help us.

    Of course, if the only purpose is to malign and speak ill of the Bible, then one won't submit to be taught.
     
    #16 Major B, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2008
  17. Bible-boy

    Bible-boy New Member

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    Here rather than try to drag this out post by post and get side tracked by red herrings how about I just refer you to the works of my wife’s 5x great grandfather and noted American abolitionist, Rev. John Rankin. He does a fine job of refuting the fallacious claim that the Bible supports chattel slavery. Letters on American Slavery, by Rev. John Rankin: http://books.google.com/books?id=us0SAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=John+Rankin

    This is a fascinating series of letters written by Rev. John Rankin to his brother Thomas Rankin upon the occasion of John becoming aware that Thomas had purchased a slave in Virginia.
     
    #17 Bible-boy, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2008
  18. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    How many times did God order His people to war in the New Testament?
     
  19. KenH

    KenH Active Member

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    God ordered animal sacrifices in the Old Testament. So should Christians engage in such today?

    God ordered even women and children(including the unborn) to be killed by His people in the Old Testament. So should Christians engage in such today in warfare?
     
  20. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

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    Ken, Ken, Ken. Right after all the good words--you are tempting me...

    Israel went to war because she was a NATION. The church is not a nation (sorry Emperor Constantine), she is an institution separate from the world, a unique thing, a salvation and discipleship machine.

    The United States is not a church, it is a state. By the Bible's clear teachings, the powers that govern not only MAY carry the sword, it is their ministry to bear the sword. My ministry for 20 years six months, and four days, between 1971 and 1992 was to preserve order and protect all the folks here. Since sinners don't do anything else perfect, nations can underutilize, overutilize, or mishandle this assignment too, but the ministry still exists, because God is a God of order.

    (Rom 13:1-6) "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing."
     
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