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Obama: Open Door for Prosecution of Bush Officials

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by LadyEagle, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    No. I supported impeachment of Clinton because he lied under oath and committed perjury. As an American, I was embarrassed that the whole world knew graphic details of his sexual escapades committed in the Oval Office, but the impeachable offense was him breaking the Rule of Law.

    Anything that Clinton did in error, such as bombing the aspirin factory, should be investigated and hearings conducted and his advisors subject to prosecution if the precedence is being set by Obama to go after the previous Bush administration. This might be a good thing, after all. I am sure there are probably a lot of things that need to be brought to light, things that were wrongly done under the Clinton administration, either overtly or covertly, while he was preoccupied with sex instead of tending to the responsibilities and business of the people that he was elected to serve. I hope some good lawyers are working to open up a big can of worms about the Clinton administration and I hope some are preparing their briief now for the new administration to prosecute Obama in 3 years and 9 months for the treason he has already committed against this nation. :thumbs:

    You go, Czar Obama! It will come back to bite you (just like was said in the other thread)!!!
     
  2. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Remember the Iran Contra affair? The culprits there (drug dealers and gun runners) all got promotions and book deals. It pays big dividends to be a criminal in government so maybe this is a good thing for Bush's crew after all. They'll probably get medals and awards, maybe even get to meet Queen Beatrix and be knighted! So take heart all you Bush fans and rejoice good things do actually come to people who do bad things.
     
    #22 poncho, Apr 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2009
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Yep, one can spot those who don't watch CSI related programs on TV. They don't know nothing about REAL DATA COLLECTING.

    BTW, it was Bush, not Obama, that was trying to destroy America on the mistaken assumption (AKA: LIE) that torture (being mean to people, abuse, sadism, etc) is a way to collect useful data on the enemy's /term pending/.

    BTW, why would one want to know the plan of the enemy ONLY? The ability of the enemy to overcome our counter-plan, the ability of the enemy to implement their plan -- these are NEVER available by torture (being mean to people, abuse, sadism, etc).

    Note that what we call INTELLIGENCE (AKA: Intell) is not called STUPID. beating/ water-boarding/ sexual molestation/ humilation/ sleep deprivation/ stuffing foriegn objects in people/ spraying pepper spray in forced-open eyes (yes, it does blind the one on the receiving end)/ [712 other specific demonic things that can be done to tortue and humuliate people is omitted here cause some of them are immoral to say, illegal to say, &/or are prohibitaed by BB rules].
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Poncho you can come out of the Twilight Zone now. Time out is over. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  5. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    These were acts that the United States condemned when they were used by other countries? Why shouldn't we be judged by the same standard as we judge others?
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    ED

    When poncho gets out of the Twilight Zone it is "time out" for you there.:wavey::wavey: I don't believe Rod Sterling would let both of you in at the same time.
     
  7. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    In this case, an Army field manual.
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    If it is determined crimes were committed, then prosecution should take place. That is NOT about a disagreement of policy, but of putting those indicted of criminal activity on trial.
     
  9. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    GREAT. If America tortured these prisoners we need to find out who was responsible and punish them. Do you want us to be like Nazi Germany?
     
  10. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    That is where BO wants to take us
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Hummm ...
    I missed this one earlier.

    Brother Elder OldRegular, though I respect you as a Church Elder, you have no authority, delegation, duty, nor SENSE to cross examine me in this way. But I'll answer them anyway. I like to talk about me anyway ;-)

    Have you ever served in the military?
    Yes. 4 years enlisted in the Air Force during the Vietnam era, Feb 1963 to Dec 1966. For 31 Years 1976-2006 I worked as an Electrical or Software Engineer for the US AF. I worked about 3 full years worth on the midnight watches and had lots of time to talk to Military people. The consensus is the same: No torture, torture is NOT an American value. Torture is NOT a good way to collect intelligence. The only people who would resort to torture to collect intelligence are perverts, losers, and/or the mean.

    Do you know anyone who has served in the military?
    I have spoken with thousands of people who have served in all capacities in the Military. They consensus is that there is NO REASON for the US Military to employ torture for any reason.

    Do you know anyone who has experienced combat?
    Yes. I have spoken with people in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Panama (more of an arrest operation), Grenada, Sinai, Somali, Bosnia

    Do you know anyone who was a prisoner of war?
    Yes. My Dad's Older brother John Edwards spent the last 3 months of WW2 in the hands of the Germans. At that time the American, Brit.and French POWs in captivity were fed more than the general German population and more than the Russian (and their allies) POWs. It was an attempt to get favorable treatment by the US, Brits, and French after the war. He died in his late 70s.

    Do you know anyone who has been wounded in combat?
    Yes. My Father, Cpl Edwards, was wounded in combat and drew 100% disability from 1945 until his early death in 1975. He lived in Military hospitals from 1945 to 1947. He died 20 years early (according to family history) dying from a cancer that started in the area of his left lung which could not be treated cause they could not find the source in the midst of all the scar tissue. He lived in torture and tribulation from those wounds for 30 years. He traveled across France in a Red Cross train -- he knew the number of cars in the train cause every one of them bounced his when the train stopped. His spleen was gone. He had two patches of skin on his left fore-arm and his left hip - skin came from his rear (rear skin has hardly any hair, fore-arm is a harry place). Half his stomach was gone - he had gastronomical troubles all his life. half his elbow as gone and he could not lift more than 5 pounds with that hand and did not have full use of the hand.

    Do you know anyone who was killed in combat?
    Yes. I have lost several friends and acquaintances in combat. Sgt. Hernandez was killed at the same time as my Dad was wounded (just inside Germany but the Government lied for their purposes and said it was in Belgium). Bones from hit my Dad as Sgt Hernandez died. Dad never said anything bad about any Mexican person, Mexican looking person, or a person with a Spanish Surname. Sgt. Hernandez saved Dad's life that day.

    Have you ever been in a Muslim country?
    No.

    Are you an authority on what the Koran teaches?
    No. But I have spoken at length with U S Military who are Koran believers (Both Officer and Enlisted). They are 100% Americans and 100% Muslims.

    Have you ever tortured anyone?
    No. And will die before I do or am 'made' to do so. BTW, most torturers don't like to get their knuckles brused but see no reason not to let the tortured torture. Torturers should be slain before they spread their perversion to others :-(

    Do you know what constitutes torture?
    Yes. I know too much about torture. I have a hard time having a positive Christian attitude cause I know way to much about torture.

    Have you ever humiliated or shamed anyone?

    No. In the late 1960s and early 1970s as both a College Student and a Public High School Teacher I was an activist against hazing. Starting when I retired from the Government in 2006 I became an activist against all forms of family abuse. Seems that families with a pattern of abuse (family torture) -- in such families, all the members abuse all the other members. But hey, I talked to PHD candidates and Masters candidates, but never took a College Course in abuse.

    BTW, now that I have answered your 'quiz', you answer your quiz. Thank you.
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Lady Eagle: // What a slap in the face to our intelligence community and our military and to US---We, the people, who were attacked by fiends on 09/11 and those who have served us in the worst attack on our own soil in history. He disgusts me yet again. //

    on 19 April 1995 Timothy McVeigh (Christian, right radical, former Military, white / all descriptors that define me / ) blew up a federal building in the center of Oklahoma City terrorizing 3 Million Americans in Oklahoma. How many "Christian, right radical, former Military, white" would one have had to torture to stop that? More than the 168 (171 if you count unborn persons) that died because of that explosion.

    Torture is INEFFICENT - no rational government should get involved in such activity. Torture is NOT a good way to gather data, let alone information.
     
  13. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    This is where George Bush took us. Did you ever think the United States would violate the Geneva Convention and torture prisoners? These were prisoners who had never been charged with a crime (like bin Laden with connection to 9/11) and could be held indefinitely. Does that sound like America or Nazi Germany to you?
     
  14. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    As I believe you were told in this thread, the Geneva convention is not for terrorist, they are not Americans nor are they subject to our laws. They should be held indefinitely and tortured until such time they are no longer of use than they should be soundly hung by the neck until dead and used as an example for other terrorist.

    BO will make sure as the second Hitler we will became the new Reich; chomping at the bit to kill babies, the disabled, Christians and any he sees as a threat.
     
    #34 historyb, Apr 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2009
  15. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    April 22, 2009
    In Adopting Harsh Tactics No Look at Past Use
    By SCOTT SHANE and MARK MAZZETTI
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22detain.html?th&emc=th


    Even George J. Tenet, the C.I.A. director who insisted that the agency had thoroughly researched its proposal and pressed it on other officials, did not examine the history of the most shocking method, the near-drowning technique known as waterboarding.

    The top officials he briefed did not learn that waterboarding had been prosecuted by the United States in war-crimes trials after World War II and was a well-documented favorite of despotic governments since the Spanish Inquisition; one waterboard used under Pol Pot was even on display at the genocide museum in Cambodia.
     
  16. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Wow Ed, what a great and dynamic post. I really believe you captured the essence of what Christ is trying to instill in his people. Wicked and evil are for the wicked and the evil. I would prefer to go home to be with the Lord a martyr than to compromise righteousness. There is no information to be gained in this world that makes compromising our morals right.
     
  17. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    You have a conflicting statement, any nation who does what you suggest in the first paragraph would deserve the label you mention in the second. You advocate evil then title a person refusing to stoop this nation to evil with a name which is the symbol of evil.

    Also, what has BO done to the disabled? How do you conclude he sees Christians as a threat?
     
  18. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    And you show me this why?
     
  19. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    This says that the United States prosecuted leaders of other countries for using the same torture techniques the Bush administration authorized and you support. Why do you advocate these methods that in the past have been abhorent to America?
     
  20. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    He is liberal and the power behind BO is Satan. It will not take a leap from his love for mass murder of babies to transfer that to the elderly and disabled and then Christians.

    Any nation that treats terrorist the way I outlined should be hailed as great. They deserve no mercy nor quarter to be given, we should nuke the lot and be done with it.
     
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