Obama - Pakistan

Getting back to the subject of the op, Pakistan has always appeared to be our ally since 9/11, but one gets the feeling it has always been with reservation. I have always wondered if behind the news scenes, if there are not different factions with very different agendas. The point about being a nuclear power is well taken. Add that to the fact of the instablility with India, and as a matter of fact, their own government. A takeover of that government by a Taliban type group is about the worst thing that could happen to us.

 

The media prints or shows that which is sensational, not always that which is objective or even that which is realistic. Pakistan is a nuclear power. So? So are its neighbors--India and China. Pakistan borders China. I would think that you would be far more concerned with China (over a billion people), than with Pakistan, as a threat to the US. Combined with India these two neighbors of Pakistan compose over one third of the world's population, and both are nuclear powers.
Why are you concerned about a takeover by a Taliban government? Are you confusing Pakistan with Afghanistan? These are two different nations. There is a small contingent of Taliban associated with Al-Qaida that are situated in the NWFP territories of Pakistan, a territory that has been difficult, if not impossible for the government to have control over, ever since the foundation of Pakistan in 1947. Is there anything to be alarmed at? No. They hide out in the caves there, much like they do in the caves in Afghanistan--both having the same rugged terrain in that part of the country.

Even now, America regularly invades Pakistan's airspace thinking they can bomb Pakistan (an ally) in order to get at these "terrorists" (taliban), even though they don't know where they are. Would America give Canada the right to bomb Texas if they knew of a terrorist hiding out there?
Pakistan wants the right to allow their own government to fight their own terrorists on their own soil, without the big bad bully of America invading their sovereign nation to do it without their permission. To this point they have exercised great patience and great restraint. If war breaks out, it won't be Pakistan's fault. There is a big bad bully in this world that takes it upon themselves to invade other countries without permission and they think that they have the perfect God-given right to do so. What arrogance.

 

I hope it doesn't come to that but only if it's to fight Afghanistan/Pakistan or anywhere the actual terrorist who perpetrated 9/11 are...

Before we draft, I hope we withdraw all the troops from Iraq with the exception of the special forces guarding the oil rigs...

 

First of all, there have been many news reports of Taliban or Taliban like groups that threaten to topple the Pakistani government. It is hard to understand how one could miss them with even casual reading of the news.

As far as being concerned about China, I never said I was not. The point is there is a flash point between India and Pakistan, and has been for years. It is hard to understand how that could have been missed by anyone who has watched the news since 1971.

I have served this country a long time, and do not like, one bit, phrases like "arrogant" and the "big bully" to characterize my country. If you do not care for the United States and its policies, stick to Canadian politics.

 

Like I said, the news reports that which is sensational, not that which objective or even realistic. There are not Taliban groups ready to topple the government. There never have been. This is pure sensationalism. It is unverified. What little Taliban there are they are contained to the very northern parts of Pakistan.

In fact Pakistan has fought three wars with India, and even now is fighting an on-going war with India in the Kashmir Valley. People die there every day. They have been fighting over the state of Kashmir ever since Pakistan gained its independence in 1947. The sad thing is that not even the UN or the US seem one bit interested in trying to help bring peace to that area even though they stick their nose into every other area of the world.

Get used to it. That is how people view your country. As a missionary I have served and been to many different nations, particularly in Asia and the mid-east. That is the reputation that America has--the big bad bully of the world--the big superpower that pokes its nose into the affairs of other sovereign nations. Yes you already have that reputation. So take offence if the truth hurts. Not every nation is cozy and cuddly to the US. You don't have a good reputation all over the world. Face the facts.

 

How would one know who the actual terrorists who perpetrated 9/11 are?

Especially when dropping a bomb from several thousand feet?

Something which Obama called "cowardly" before the election.

Now that would really be a using military force for oil...

...exactly what the Dems and Libs accused Bush of doing.

 

How would one know who the actual terrorists who perpetrated 9/11 are?

Especially when dropping a bomb from several thousand feet?

Something which Obama called "cowardly" before the election.

Now that would really be a using military force for oil...

...exactly what the Dems and Libs accused Bush of doing.

 

Good question, especially now that there is doubt Bin Laden was the leader who did the crime.

I don't recall that, do you have a link. I do remember him saying he would shoot over the Pakistani boarder if he knew that's where the Taliban was hiding and Pakistan wasn't doing anything about it.

That is what we're doing right now today. We have special forces guarding the oil rigs making sure they are not captured by terrorist who would then cut off the supply as a way to get back at the US and get the rest of the world to listen to their demands. We were trying to train Saudi/Iraqi forces to take over the job but I guess that never worked out.

 

I guess I was wrong, it was the Navy Seals who took over the rigs but they are now guarded by the Coast Guard...

http://www.jinsa.org/node/600

 

Infiltrating Pakistan with CIA agents and taking out the leaders of the Taliban. We know how to do this. We've done it for decades.

 

And with just the special forces there, how many hours do you expect them to live?

 

More here:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/pakistan/090211/exclusive-the-wrong-hands

 

"CIA-type surgical strikes." under O'bama kill only terrorists.


"CIA-type surgical strikes." under President Bush killed only innocent civilians [by the thousands or was it hundreds of thousands].

 

You have no more idea than anyone else which group is a threat to the government of Pakistan than any other person on the board, or if they are Taliban type groups.

Thank you for the history lesson. The daily fighting cannot be compared to a full war between India and Pakistan. Sadly, Canada has not done one thing to remedy the situation of the daily fighting, nor do they have the capability.

Actually, I am not required to get used to names like that about the country I live in. Yes, this country has made mistakes, but those mistakes are for the American people to deal with, not foreign nationals. You talk about the truth and reality of the situation, reality is that Canada could not repel an attack from a high school football team in Sioux St Marie, Michigan. Guess who they would be begging for help if their national borders were threatened?

 

So to summarize:

You are against capturing and detaining suspected terrorists and terrorists leaders...

But you advocte covertly killing them where they stand.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

I think JC was suggesting that the safe haven not be so safe. I can't say I can argue with that...

As for the capturing and detaining suspected terrorists targus, I think we either need to declare them POW's or charge them with a crime more solid than suspicion. At one point you have to prove suspicion's or declare me innocent and set me free.

 

And how do you know that? I don't sit in an arm chair in Kentucky watching CNN. I have already told you that I am a missionary and have been to various nations in Asia and the mid-east. Let's get this straight so you can understand it: My view point is not a Canadian view point; it is a world-wide view point gathered from other nations that I have been in. My sources of information are far different than yours.

The subject is not Canada. It is Pakistan, and I entered the thread with someones off the cuff remark to "why not just go into Pakistan and bomb them." Real smart people aren't they? I am not speaking from a Canadian point of view. You can drop the typical "attack Canada" attitude. It isn't about Canada. It is about the US and Pakistan.

If you have one iota of patriotism in you left you ought to be concerned how others view your nation in this world. I have lived in the US for six years. I know how other Americans are patriotic. Are you not concerned how others in the world perceive America as a nation. Or are you content to allow America to be perceived as the big bad bully of the world.

This is not an attack Canada thread. This subject is about the US and Pakistan. It has nothing to do with Canada. Why the red herrings? Why the personal attacks? However you are right. "Those mistakes are for the American people to deal with," and they need to do that. How do you propose to do that without getting angry at Canada. Canada has nothing to do with it. The discussion relates to Pakistan--you using their airspace, their soil, and even attack their sovereign nation without permission. That is where the "bully" reputation comes in.

 

And where do you stand on killing suspected terrorists from the air with bombs or by covert operations with nothing more than suspicions?

They don't have the benefit of being charged and tried first - they just receive a death sentence.

Isn't that a hypocritical double standard?