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Obamacare mandate will stand under taxing power

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by mandym, Jun 28, 2012.

  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    How are states exempt :confused:
     
  2. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Can I just say, "I told you so?" :(
     
  3. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    OK, SCOTUS ruled that the 'fee' for failing to have mandatory coverage is actually a tax. The House is in charge of passing tax bills. However, the House didn't present this bill as a tax bill, yet now SCOTUS has ruled that it is.

    Is it possible for the Republican controlled House to maneuver some sort of parliamentary loophole to repeal Obamacare?
     
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Don't know. Don't know if they have the will. But what they can do is NOT FUND the 14,000+ IRS agents to oversee this law and collect the "TAX."

    And, as I have stated before, certain religious groups, such as Amish, will be exempt. Look for muslims to be exempt, as well.

    Of course this whole debacle does not address the growing number of people who have no health insurance and have no "taxable" income, but will still receive healthcare picked up at taxpayer expense, i.e., illegal aliens, drug pushers, homeless, prostitutes, and more.

    This was never about healthcare It has always been about "power."

    Oh, I can see it now....not only are you too obese, have diabetes, smoke, or whatever, be elderly or infirm (burdens on the government), it is not too much of a stretch for me to see that if you own a gun, you will have to surrender it or "pay a tax." There is no stopping what can be mandated now....

    I agree that the Republicans will probably do nothing except be belicose. The issue now will be about the NEW TAX and it will help win elections and may turn the tide for Mitt Romney's favor. But once politicians (no matter what party) have the power, they never give it up. Kiss your life as you knew it as a "free" American, good-bye. :tear:

    Truth is, we aren't really free, we just believed we were, but this is just the nail in our coffin. :tear:
     
  5. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    My one and only objection is that it is unconstitutional. I feel the same about Medicare and a myriad of other laws that violate the constitution. Back to your question. I assume you are not very old, perhaps only in your 20's or 30's, but 50 years ago some people who could not afford insurance lived without it and died without it.
    I do not believe in socialized medicine of any kind or a system that provides such. The solution is if a person cannot pay they get no service. By the way I have no insurance and live by that principle.
     
    #25 freeatlast, Jun 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2012
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    It will never happen. Wake up. Both parties are in bed together and this is not going to be repealed. I told you this would not be shot down by the courts and it wasn't and it is not going to be repealed either. The problem with doing a full repeal of Obamacare is that it will take a majority in the House, the presidency, and 60 votes in the Senate. That makes it impossible to repeal even with Romney because there is no way they could get 60 votes in the Senate.
    The only thing they can do is not fund the bill. The IRS will most likely have to hire between 1000 and 2000 extra people to enforce all the new taxes and penalties the bill includes in it. That does not include the 159 new government agencies, panels, commissions, and departments the bill creates.
    That all takes more tax dollars and congress can refuse to mandate the increase, but believe me the bill will not be repealed as Mitt Romney is claiming and will most likely go into effect as given. Once these extra bureaucratic agencies are put in place they will stay in place and the funding will be routed around the congress. WE are talking literally thousands of new government jobs at tax payer expense. By the way who ever helped vote this guy in is responsible for this mess and the bigger mess to come. We are on the way down people so prepare.
     
    #26 freeatlast, Jun 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2012
  7. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    I did not say they were exempt. The Fed has no way to enforce what they want on the states. Scotus has seen to that.
     
  8. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    I'm glad it was upheld. Of course the right-wing will complain. It's what they are best at.
     
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    As long as you understand it will push us over the edge into bankruptcy.
     
  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    The international corporations will be pleased if Catholics go out of the hospital business They will buy your hospitals at a fire sale price and the rich will get richer.
     
  11. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Let's see: what does coercing people to buy a good or service do to the price of that good or service by providers? Does the price go up or down?

    What do price or other restrictions do to the supply of the good or service? Does it shrink or grow?

    What does a monopoly do to the price of any good or service? Does it go up or down?
     
  12. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Remove a lot of the existing red tape and bureaucracy that "necessitated" the insurance industry in the first place.

    There is no reason that health costs cannot keep coming down with all the technological improvements if it were allowed to work the same way that consumer electronics works. The reason is that the government keeps meddling in things and then blames their problems on the market, always asking for more and more controls.

    Let's not forget that the health insurance industry started as a result of government regulation of wages during World War II. The government enforced wage controls, making competition in hiring difficult among businesses. The loophole was to offer health insurance.
     
  13. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    The SC does not like to rattle cages, but would prefer to rubber stamp most legislation from Congress that gives the government more power.

    The "checks and balances" of the three branches of government is not entirely trustworthy when they are branches of the same body of government. This is why Jefferson staunchly proposed the idea of the right of states to nullify federal laws for themselves as unconstitutional even when the Supreme Court rules that they are constitutional.
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Did the bill originate in the House? I don't believe so. It was crafted by dingy Harry in absolute secrecy. If I am not mistaken all revenue bills must originate in the House.

    The fact that it is a tax bill means that only 51 votes are required in the Senate to eliminate the tax and kill this 2700 page multi trillion dollar monstrosity.
     
  15. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    No taxation without representation----I believe thats what the US Constitution says

    A tax is placed by the House-----you are correct

    This Supreme Court decision is one of the main reasons we went to war against the British----and kicked their little fannies all the way back across the Big Pond!!!!

    The question is-----exactly who is allowed to hold the Supreme Court in contempt?????? Serious question!!!
     
  16. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    How is this taxation without representation?
     
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    A Supreme Court Justice may be impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from office if convicted in a Senate trial, but only for the same types of offenses that would trigger impeachment proceedings for any other government official under Articles I and II of the Constitution.

    Article III, Section 1 states that judges of Article III courts shall hold their offices "during good behavior." "The phrase "good behavior" has been interpreted by the courts to equate to the same level of seriousness 'high crimes and misdemeanors" encompasses.
     
  18. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    You keep saying this but the Supreme Court has ruled that it is constitutional. You sound like a little kid. Get over it--it is constitutional.
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    This is a very good point. I would use LASIK surgery as an example. Most Lasik surgery is not covered by health insurance plans, so it is an example of the free market at work in a medical environment.

    When Lasik was first introduced it cost thousands of dollars per eye. But as the technology improved and more and more eye doctors learned the procedure, competition for patient's dollars began to lower the cost. I now see ads for Lasik surgery for as low as $495 per eye.
     
  20. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    They also say abortion is constitutional so I assume you agree that murdering the unborn is constitutional, correct?
     
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