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Of Freedom of the Will

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Jan 4, 2019.

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  1. Lodic

    Lodic Member

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    I know that the "never truly saved" is a common argument for OSAS, but I'm not convinced. (Then again, I'm not quite as convinced of my opposing view since we've been on this discussion.) 1 John 2:24-27 speaks of letting the truth remain in you. Therefore, it's possible for us to let it go. I realize you can go back to the "never truly saved" argument on that one. On that note, I am getting ready to wrap up for the weekend. Hope to catch you on Monday.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    IF one can really lose their salvation in Christ, then could never get it back again. correct?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Active Member

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    It is a simple truth, the person who perishes is not saved.
    The person who goes to be present with the Lord upon death is saved.

    To say one is now saved means they will go to be with the Lord upon physical death.
    The person who upon physical death does not go to be with the Lord was not saved.

    The idea that one can be saved and then lost makes no sense. Effectively being saved and then lost, the end result is no different than never being saved.

    Matthew 7:21-23.
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.
     
  5. Dave Gilbert

    Dave Gilbert Active Member

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    Therein lies the problem with salvation being contingent upon the will of men.

    If men decide to be saved, then they search for a way to accomplish that which is in their will to achieve.
    If men retain their belief, then they attain that which they set out to accomplish.
    If men decide to stop believing, then they lose the chance at gaining that which they have set out to accomplish.

    That is what the free will gospel is entirely built on...the desires of men.
    The problem with man's will, is that God is the one who does the saving.
    It's a simple legal proceeding...man has rebelled, and God has promised that those who have rebelled must face justice.
    Since all have sinned, God then decides whether or not to save someone.
    He doesn't leave that choice up to men, whose will from birth is to do anything but obey God and give Him the glory that He deserves.

    Why people find this so hard to understand I already know, but few seem to understand the Scriptures that give this information...to me, it's a simple, "I am responsible for my sins, and God is within His right to deny me pardon...I am the one who transgressed the commandment."
    Those of us who have served in the U.S. military know full well what the Uniform Code of Military Justice is...and we all knew what the consequences were for certain infractions.
    It was non-negotiable, at least until people started getting military lawyers and making a fight of it in "court".:rolleyes:

    Before that, right was right, and wrong was wrong, and we accepted the consequences of our actions.
    In the sailing ship Navy, it was stripes or death for crimes committed.
    In recent times, if it was brig time, we accepted that.
    If Leavenworth or death ( for doing something stupid that resulted in the deaths of our comrades-in-arms, or for treason ), we accepted that, because we messed up.
    This is no different.

    What it boils down to is this:

    Every false doctrine of salvation that includes either gaining it, keeping it, or doing both, bases eternal life on the will and expectations of men.
    In every conversation I've ever been in or been an observer in, mankind would never argue, for example, that water is not wet, nor breathing air not essential to life...
    ...but when it comes to how to escape the fires of Hell, everyone throws that common agreement to the winds...multitudes disagree with how God actually saves men.

    Some see the Bible teaching cooperation.
    Some see it teaching that God determines who is saved from among the rebellious.

    The first is not salvation, it is negotiation.
    The second is mercy born out of grace that will not be coerced or influenced, because then it would not be gracious, or a gift.

    God does not negotiate with sinners.

    His will is immutable, and cannot be over-ruled.
    If any of you think that He can be bargained with, think again.
    He doesn't make deals with criminals....ever.

    God saves, and God damns to Hell anyone He decides should go there, because we all should go there.
    We don't have anything to say about it. :(


    We're not dealing with Someone who bases His decisions on the desires of men, people...
    We're dealing with the God of creation whom we have offended.:Cautious



    We would do well for all of us to remember that.:oops:
     
    #145 Dave Gilbert, Jan 13, 2019 at 8:16 PM
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019 at 8:49 PM
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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