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Oh, boy, here's one:

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Dec 20, 2003.

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  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    For the premise of this thread, assuming there is a pretribulation rapture of the Church, will the Holy Spirit go, too?

    If so, how will unbelieving Gentiles get saved if the Holy Spirit is no longer on earth? (not talking about the 144,000 sealed, but Gentiles)
     
    #1 LadyEagle, Dec 20, 2003
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    He is omnipresent, he doesn't "go" anywhere.
     
    #2 Daniel David, Dec 20, 2003
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    So, you're saying the Holy Spirit will be here on earth when the Church is gone?
     
    #3 LadyEagle, Dec 20, 2003
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God is omnipresent. If He was not omnipresent everywhere, He would not be God.
     
    #4 KenH, Dec 20, 2003
  5. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Yes, we know. But that isn't the question in the OP. ;)
     
    #5 LadyEagle, Dec 20, 2003
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is, LadyEagle. The earth is a part of everywhere.
     
    #6 KenH, Dec 21, 2003
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Fine, then how do you explain

    II Thess. 2:
    7. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    Why would not the "restrainer" Holy Spirit not leave when the church leaves?
     
    #7 LadyEagle, Dec 21, 2003
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Because God is omnipresent.

    You do believe that God is omnipresent, don't you, LadyEagle? :confused:
     
    #8 KenH, Dec 21, 2003
  9. skanwmatos

    skanwmatos New Member

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    The restraining influence via His indwelt people will leave, not Him Personally. The restraining influence of Christians is why Christ calls us "the salt of the earth."
     
    #9 skanwmatos, Dec 21, 2003
  10. Watchman

    Watchman New Member

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    You bring up a very good passage here. It says nothing here about removing from the earth. It simply says He will, "...be taken out of the way".
    If I want to get out of the way from a car coming at me, I do not need to remove myself from the earth. No, I get out of the way.In this case, the way from what? In this context, out of the way of restraining evil. The scoffer will, looking at the world today say, "God is restraining evil? That's a joke." Well, He does restrain A LOT of evil, imagine what will happen when He stops restraining!
     
    #10 Watchman, Dec 21, 2003
  11. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    Why do you think that passage is refering to the Holy Spirit? It could be something else that restrains behavior, i.e. Law, a human authority, etc.

    Tim
     
    #11 Tim, Dec 21, 2003
  12. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    LadyEagle, it doesn't say the restrainer is removed from earth. Also, as a dispy myself, I believe the restrainer is Michael, the archangel.
     
    #12 Daniel David, Dec 21, 2003
  13. Watchman

    Watchman New Member

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    Tim:
    LadyEagle's passage twice says, "he."

    Daniel David:
    I have no doubt that angels have great power, but to be able to restrain evil on a global scale?
     
    #13 Watchman, Dec 21, 2003
  14. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    "He" could be a human authority couldn't he?
     
    #14 Tim, Dec 21, 2003
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Could it have been the office of the Roman emperor?
     
    #15 KenH, Dec 21, 2003
  16. Me2

    Me2 New Member

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    ahh...The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent.

    and the "mystery of iniquity" deals with the uncovering and destruction of the WORKS OF THE FLESH in the sanctification of each believer.

    It has nothing to do with eschatology.
     
    #16 Me2, Dec 21, 2003
  17. Tim

    Tim New Member

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    The Spirit was poured out into the church at Pentecost. His special presence is thus in the church as it was in the Temple of old. That's why we're called the temple of the Holy Spirit.

    I don't think the omnipresence argument really pertains here.

    Tim
     
    #17 Tim, Dec 21, 2003
  18. sandrocksam

    sandrocksam New Member

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    I believe the "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit but I have not looked at that verse in the manner of those who are saved after the rapture before you brought it up. What comes to mind is the manner God dealt with mankind prior to the Holy Spirit being sent as in the Old Testment saints. I think we will have to give your post some thought.
     
    #18 sandrocksam, Dec 27, 2003
  19. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    With all due respects, DD.

    I believe, based on the description given about Michael in Daniel, that there is an indication Michael is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself, the Prince of His people.
     
    #19 pinoybaptist, Dec 28, 2003
  20. Daniel David

    Daniel David New Member

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    WHAT!!!!

    Surely you jest, albeit, it isn't funny.

    Michael is the archangel, the ONLY archangel.

    Christ is the Lord of the angels, not merely the highest ranking one.
     
    #20 Daniel David, Dec 28, 2003
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