OK for a woman to baptize?

There are 66 books in the Bible and 32 authors. Please give me the written word of a woman???

All the examples you give are subject to translation, whether they were femanine gender. IMO

Also, You can prophesy, without preaching.



Main Entry: proph·e·sy Pronunciation: \ˈprä-fə-ˌsī\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): proph·e·sied; proph·e·sy·ing Etymology: Middle English prophesien, from Anglo-French *prophecier, from Old French, from prophecie Date: 14th century transitive verb 1 : to utter by or as if by divine inspiration

2 : to predict with assurance or on the basis of mystic knowledge

3 : prefigure intransitive verb 1 : to speak as if divinely inspired

2 : to give instruction in religious matters : preach

3 : to make a prediction

Take all the scripture or don't.

1Ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Tts 1:5 ¶ For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

Tts 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Tts 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;


BBob,

 

Sorry about this one.

Phoebe was "a" deaconess [(AMP - Gk. - "διακονον") - The AMP gets it right, here; the TNIV and NLT are both dead wrong to render this as "deacon", for deacon is a male term!], not "the" anything, and Tertius wrote the Romans epistle. (Rom. 16:1, 22)

Ed

 

Who da' heck is Helmut Koester??

Regardless, he is wrong concerning the Greek form, and 'deacon', as I just posted above. "διακονον" is the accusative ending of the root word "διακονος", and is 'feminine' when referring to a woman, as in this instance.

Ed

 

Το λεξικό βρήκε 1 λέξη.
The dictionary found 1 word.
διάκονος ο= servantdiakonos o</B>

One of you is wrong for sure.


Good old KJV:



Romans, chapter 16


Compare with Revised Standard Version: Roma.16



1: I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

BBob,

 

Ed Sutton:

What is the Greek word for deaconess ???

BBob,

 

[Edited out, in order to remain in good standing with the BB powers that be!]

FTR, I have a hard copy of the RSV somewhere, which I have not used or even know where it is, in many years.

Ed

 

Brother Bob, I just gave this answer in posts #322, and 323. Why do I need to repeat this, when it has not changed in three additional posts? I have one more post to complete on this thread, then I'm out of it.

If I really want to plow the same furrow again, I will just go out and do something in the garden, as the rain has stopped here, for now.

Ed

 

Anything more than a "servant" is nothing but guess work on the person trying to make more of it.

BBob,

 

Not sure where you come up with "32 authors" from, exactly, but that is for another day and another thread. However, as to the "written word":

I certainly do not believe one can say (and I certainly have not said this) with any degree of credibility that any woman wrote any of the words found in Scripture; in fact I Pet. 2:21 specifically says "men". However, Peter, as 'Luke', claimed to have specific knowledge of what was (being) written, and what was Scripture. (Lk. 1:1-4; II Pet. 2:13-21, esp. vs. 19; 3:15-16)

And there are several instances recorded in Scripture where women 'spoke', that God, the Holy Spirit saw fit to have the writers record. I listed some of them by name, in post # 314, including that of Mary (Lk. 1:46-55), Miriam (Ex. 15:20-21), and Deborah (Jdg.5). Others have listed other words that were recorded, as well. The words of Mary and these others are just as much their words and are a part of Scripture as the words of Romans are those of Paul, or those of Jeremiah are his. Tertius wrote the Epistle to the Romans, not Paul; Baruch wrote the words of Jeremiah. Same difference.

It ain't rainin' now, and I ain't gonna get 'baptized' by anyone at the moment (man or woman), so I will let some others have their last words before the moderator has the last word, in this thread.

I'm outta' here.

Ed

 

Sure ain't nutting wrong with a woman talking that I know of. Don't know anyone who accused you of any of the things you listed, so you can rest at ease Ed.

BBob,

 

Was Jesus arrogant when he spoke, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.”
If you totally agree with your statement, “Jesus was our example and the Apostles.” Then could you point me to one verse where it states that. My Bible says in Hebrews 12 that we are to focus on Christ. I am unable to see any other name mentioned there.

Are you simply saying that what you believe is 100% correct and there is not ever any chance of the possibility of you being wrong? Are you saying that there is no possibility that you are possibly wrong and open for correction?

If you have read some of the sermons from the last century and in the century before that you would have a hard time believing some of the nonsense that was preached then and know that people actually believed it too.
Was it not you who wrote that preaching is for men only and also that preaching was only preaching the gospel and something else was not preaching? If that is the case then how in the world do women hear the gospel in a dorm room if women do not preach the gospel?

Paul did not say any such thing. That is a KJV translation. I am surprised that you would call yourself a Baptist and adhere to the COE theology.
Can you cite one present day example of where the concocted ordination services today to honor a man has done anything to improve the man’s service to God or increased his godliness?

It sure would help a lot if you would not prooftext and mix texts and contexts to mean something they never meant.
There is a big difference between women preachers and women pastors. A prophetess is much different than a church pastor too.

I do not believe in any of them. I believe God. I do not believe in the Bible. I do trust that God’s word is true and inspired by Him. I place my trust in Christ not in any Bible translation. Why should I, when no translation is perfect. Why should I when I took the time to study the languages of the text itself? That is what motivated me a lot to study such things. If you have studied a language (which I am quite sure you have studied English) then you have got to know that language is directly tied to culture. The Bible is tied to a culture during the time when it was written and the people it was addressed to.

Why would anyone who is a Baptist completely trust a translation done by pedobaptists who also believe in a clergy hierarchy within their church? Even Spurgeon stated that it was not perfect but it was the best they had at the time.
I spent a lot of time at the largest theological library in the US studying these issues and found some rather shocking documents that left me in a strange state of mind on how to approach people about what I found. I could not believe as the response by several men whom I told about what I found. During that time I encountered some pastors and seminary professors who said I was right. Most of them were Baptists. I asked some of them if they had ever struggled with theological issues that after studying they came up with something very different than what they had heard from preachers. The answer was a surprisingly “Yes” so many times. Even I was surprised at how many answered my question the same way. Yet what I heard often in public was the political line. That is hypocrisy. The majority of time times I found they wanted their job more than they wanted God and the truth of His word. I will never forget the time I spoke with a pastor and confronted him about an issue he had never considered. He stood speechless when I asked him what he was willing to do about it. He was faced with being a politician or standing for the truth. The vast majority of people I talked with about the issues became politicians and few had the courage to stand for the truth.
The fact today is that the people filling Mormon Churches each week are mostly from Southern Baptist Churches and Roman Catholic Churches. What does that say about their knowledge of the Bible?
You probably know that Dr. Whitsitt was fired from Southern Seminary for teaching exactly the same things we believe as Baptists today. How does that fit in with your theology and what you believe is the truth? Would you have stood with the politicians of the SBC at the time or stood with Dr. Whitsitt? That is the question we must all decide ahead of time if we will stand for the truth. Are you so sure of your theology that you can cite the historical documentation that you have read or have you simply read or listened to another man’s opinion.

I take God at His word and am willing to spend hours in study and preparation to do my best to make sure that I have studied and prayed well before I stand before anyone to deliver a message or lead a Bible study.

I have been accused of that many times by the ignorant because I do not agree with them. I do not take your accusation personally though.
The word was not written in English and translated by the COE pedobaptists who believed in a church hierarchy. It was written in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Sometime try and set your mind apart from the theology of your translation and see how those words were used in the community and church at that time. I think you will find that the Constantinian, RCC, and COE biases so present today and for centuries back would be erased and you would see some very different things than you see now. If you will study western and eastern cultures you will also some very different ways of looking at the same things. For every issue that seems to have two sides there is only one truth. Doesn’t that motivate you to study more or do you feel comfortable with that? If you would not make the assumptions you do, then you might find that I agree with you more than you think.
In your postings are assumptions you think I believe based on your own definitions and interpretations which I do not believe.

Often the strategy of a person is that if you cannot attacks the person’s idea, then attack the person.
Your attack does put me in good company with Spurgeon and not the COE and RCC hierarchy. What did you find out about that Greek word which is translated ordain in the KJV?

How true is God’s word! The problem is not with God, but the laziness of man and his wanting to be comfortable along with the religious politicians today so he fits in with the right party. I have letters from denominational leaders who now stand on a different political platform than they once did because they want to keep their job. Absolutely, I agree that the word is living. Sure beats having a dead God as so many churches today have. So many churches are just like concrete—all mixed and permanently set. Their pastors are following the political machinery of today instead of investing time in prayer and study in an effort to know God. I am not really interested in being a part of the political machine in a movement. I am interested in knowing God. What I want on my tombstone is “He knew God.”

 

2 Timothy 3:16 would not make such a declaration.

 

16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works

Why not?? Why would it matter to you?

BBob; You don't believe in the KJV, but you do believe in a later translation.

gb93433: I do not believe in any of them

BBob,

 

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
You speak with arrogance. Jesus was our example and the Apostles.
Was Jesus arrogant when he spoke, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.”
If you totally agree with your statement, “Jesus was our example and the Apostles.” Then could you point me to one verse where it states that. My Bible says in Hebrews 12 that we are to focus on Christ. I am unable to see any other name mentioned there.

1Cr 11:1 ¶ Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.


Quote:
If you are going to throw out what you don't like, what is the use discussing anything with you. If you are a Baptist, you are like one I have never known. I do not have a command to go into women's dorms, maybe you do.
Are you simply saying that what you believe is 100% correct and there is not ever any chance of the possibility of you being wrong? Are you saying that there is no possibility that you are possibly wrong and open for correction?

If a man ceases to learn, he is dead!

If you have read some of the sermons from the last century and in the century before that you would have a hard time believing some of the nonsense that was preached then and know that people actually believed it too.
Was it not you who wrote that preaching is for men only and also that preaching was only preaching the gospel and something else was not preaching? If that is the case then how in the world do women hear the gospel in a dorm room if women do not preach the gospel?

You are hung up on the dorm room, but to hear the word does not always mean it was preached to you. You just insist that it is preaching for some reason. If its just preaching, the devil has his preachers, so that would be not big deal, but to preach the gospel, is another thing.


Quote:
Lets see, you don't believe in ordination, you say it is worthless, when Paul said to ordain elders in every city.

Paul did not say any such thing. That is a KJV translation. I am surprised that you would call yourself a Baptist and adhere to the COE theology.
Can you cite one present day example of where the concocted ordination services today to honor a man has done anything to improve the man’s service to God or increased his godliness?

Yes, the ordained minister is subject to the church that ordained him and whatsoever the church binds on earth shall be bound in Heaven.
..............................................................................................(ordain)
οὗτος χάριν ἀπολείπω σύ ἐν Κρήτη ἵνα ὁ λείπω ἐπιδιορθόω καί καθίστημι κατά πόλις πρεσβύτερος ὡς ἐγώ σύ διατάσσω


Quote:
You believe in women preachers, when scripture says for the women to be silent and not to teach. They are only allowed to help an authority, such as a man.
It sure would help a lot if you would not prooftext and mix texts and contexts to mean something they never meant.
There is a big difference between women preachers and women pastors. A prophetess is much different than a church pastor too.

You separate for your purpose the pastor from the preacher, but all Pastors I know, are preachers.

Quote:
You don't believe in the KJV, but you do believe in a later translation.

I do not believe in any of them. I believe God. I do not believe in the Bible. I do trust that God’s word is true and inspired by Him. I place my trust in Christ not in any Bible translation. Why should I, when no translation is perfect. Why should I when I took the time to study the languages of the text itself? That is what motivated me a lot to study such things. If you have studied a language (which I am quite sure you have studied English) then you have got to know that language is directly tied to culture. The Bible is tied to a culture during the time when it was written and the people it was addressed to.

If you do not believe in any of them, then why are you using the parts you like for. If I did not believe in the Bible, I sure would not use it to justify a prophetess!


Why would anyone who is a Baptist completely trust a translation done by pedobaptists who also believe in a clergy hierarchy within their church? Even Spurgeon stated that it was not perfect but it was the best they had at the time.
I spent a lot of time at the largest theological library in the US studying these issues and found some rather shocking documents that left me in a strange state of mind on how to approach people about what I found. I could not believe as the response by several men whom I told about what I found. During that time I encountered some pastors and seminary professors who said I was right. Most of them were Baptists. I asked some of them if they had ever struggled with theological issues that after studying they came up with something very different than what they had heard from preachers. The answer was a surprisingly “Yes” so many times. Even I was surprised at how many answered my question the same way. Yet what I heard often in public was the political line. That is hypocrisy. The majority of time times I found they wanted their job more than they wanted God and the truth of His word. I will never forget the time I spoke with a pastor and confronted him about an issue he had never considered. He stood speechless when I asked him what he was willing to do about it. He was faced with being a politician or standing for the truth. The vast majority of people I talked with about the issues became politicians and few had the courage to stand for the truth.

Because His Spirit bears witness with our Spirit and through the His Spirit, the hidden things are revealed unto us. Do you know that or not?

The fact today is that the people filling Mormon Churches each week are mostly from Southern Baptist Churches and Roman Catholic Churches. What does that say about their knowledge of the Bible?
You probably know that Dr. Whitsitt was fired from Southern Seminary for teaching exactly the same things we believe as Baptists today. How does that fit in with your theology and what you believe is the truth? Would you have stood with the politicians of the SBC at the time or stood with Dr. Whitsitt? That is the question we must all decide ahead of time if we will stand for the truth. Are you so sure of your theology that you can cite the historical documentation that you have read or have you simply read or listened to another man’s opinion.

I stand on the written word, which the meaning is revealed to me from God. He that lacketh wisdom, let him ask of God.

Quote:
What do you believe in? Anything. except yourself.

I take God at His word and am willing to spend hours in study and preparation to do my best to make sure that I have studied and prayed well before I stand before anyone to deliver a message or lead a Bible study.

And just where did you get this word of God, being that you reject all translations of the scripture.

continued:

 

Continued

Quote:
You defy the word;

I have been accused of that many times by the ignorant because I do not agree with them. I do not take your accusation personally though.
The word was not written in English and translated by the COE pedobaptists who believed in a church hierarchy. It was written in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Sometime try and set your mind apart from the theology of your translation and see how those words were used in the community and church at that time. I think you will find that the Constantinian, RCC, and COE biases so present today and for centuries back would be erased and you would see some very different things than you see now. If you will study western and eastern cultures you will also some very different ways of looking at the same things. For every issue that seems to have two sides there is only one truth. Doesn’t that motivate you to study more or do you feel comfortable with that? If you would not make the assumptions you do, then you might find that I agree with you more than you think.
In your postings are assumptions you think I believe based on your own definitions and interpretations which I do not believe.

I think you might be quite surprised if you knew me as my community knows me. If any man ever stood on his beliefs of God, I believe by His help, I am one of them.

Quote:
Tts 1:5
Quote:
¶For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

You speak blasphemy against the word of God.

Often the strategy of a person is that if you cannot attacks the person’s idea, then attack the person.
Your attack does put me in good company with Spurgeon and not the COE and RCC hierarchy. What did you find out about that Greek word which is translated ordain in the KJV?

I posted it above.

Quote:
Jhn 6:63
Quote:
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
Jhn 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day

How true is God’s word! The problem is not with God, but the laziness of man and his wanting to be comfortable along with the religious politicians today so he fits in with the right party. I have letters from denominational leaders who now stand on a different political platform than they once did because they want to keep their job. Absolutely, I agree that the word is living. Sure beats having a dead God as so many churches today have. So many churches are just like concrete—all mixed and permanently set. Their pastors are following the political machinery of today instead of investing time in prayer and study in an effort to know God. I am not really interested in being a part of the political machine in a movement. I am interested in knowing God. What I want on my tombstone is “He knew God.”

So, now it is God's word, when it fits into your theology. BTW, I agree with this statement.

BBob

 

You asked for, "Please give me the written word of a woman???" I could not give you the written words of man or woman from scripture. However I can give easily give you the written word of God.

It matters hugely because they are not the words of men or women. They are the written word of the living God which are words of life. Words of men and women cannot make such a claim.

 

Written by men who were moved upon by the Holy Ghost. IMO 2 Peter 21: 21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


χειροτονώ
v. consecrate, ordain


προχειρίζω
v. dub, ordain

διορίζω
v. appoint, depurate, constitute, depute, deputize, designate, name, name to, nominate, ordain


επιτάσσω
v. commandeer, ordain, requisition



BBob,

 

How I wish that were absolutely true. When have you known of an ordiantion to be removed from any pastor? An ordination has little impact when he can get another from a church that wants to add to its statistics. Almost every week we read about oradiend pedophiles who are jailed.

I cannot think of one time where a man has become more godly because of ordination. In fact I have seen quite the opposite. Too often ordination is seen as a means to get a better job in a church because churches see ordination as someone who is “approved.”

I quoted from an English Bible for your convenience. If I had known you knew Greek then I would have quoted from a Greek text.

Translations are just that. They are a best attempt at trying to make the text readable in another language. Because languages are so closely tied to culture it is not entirely possible to translate anything with 100% accuracy all of the time. Idioms do not always translate very well. For example bowels or mercy would not translate very well to mean what it actually meant then. Imagine someone using bowels of mercy today in the phrases they use. People would think someone is crazy for using that phrase. Today we would use something entirely different to say the same thing.

 

It is quite something to name someone they do not know as arrogant. So I would hope that I would be very pleasantly surprised.

God's word was established long before I was born. It is not dependent on me.

Show me one person who claims to have perfect theology and I will show you a liar. I am more interested not in his intellectual theology as I am in his practical theology anyway.

 

"...these are the men and women who preach the best sermons; these are your practical preachers. Give us your holy living, and with your holy living as the leverage we will move the world. Under God’s blessing we will find tongues, if we can, but we need greatly the lives of our people to illustrate what our tongues have to say." --Spurgeon, The Soul Winner.