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Old Regular Baptist

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Frogman, Apr 13, 2004.

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  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Your grandfather had at least quit a month before he died, and who am I or anyone else to say whether he went to heaven or not. We are stewards of the church here on earth, and are compelled to act in such a way as to not eat with fornicators, etc.
    I have had similar cases where someone did not receive water baptisim, and I certainly felt they made it. We had one ,the brothers were carrying in their arms to the water, and died on the way.
    Also, an acoholic to me would be much different than someone in adultery. If someone told me he just couldn't quit adultery I would not believe him and would not have a hope for him if he died similiar to your Papaw.
    I respect your answer, and I am glad your Papaw left you a hope. Even he knew, though by the tears he shed, that it was needful to quit certain things before becoming a member of the earthly church. I certainly respect him for that. He knew more than a lot who are stewards over the churches today. Merry Christmas,
     
    #461 Brother Bob, Dec 10, 2006
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  2. Gr8iZthHrvst

    Gr8iZthHrvst New Member

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    Great is the Harvest... send forth workers...

    I began my prayer life at age 3 on my knees beside my bed. This is an early recollection of being introduced to God and Jesus. I am 51 now and I have journied far in this time. Many changes have taken place since that time and today I am steadfastly trudging a path that has been nearly overthrown by the adversary on many occassion; but God alone has seen me this far. I have a web site which is Harvestcross.com that is a sign of who I am, what I believe, what I am doing for Him, and what I believe that God wants us to do if we are living for Him and are fully aware and believe in the Great Commission.

    Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world. God's word does not return to Him void, but accomplishes that which He designed and designated it to do.

    I know that Christianity has broken off many times, that people have taken it upon themselves to start different churches and have even changed God's original word and have reworked its meaning to suite their own needs.

    God said that He knows the desires of our heart, and that He wants us to have the desires of our heart. Thus; the Harvestcross is a sign to the world that we live in that we do love God and that we are a participating in the Great Commission for God. That we are not ashamed, that we are not closet Christians, and that our most loving heavenly Father is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him and who desire to do His will in and through us. Jesus said that if we were ashamed of Him, that His Father would be ashamed of us. In the same; Jesus said that if we deny Him to others that He would deny us before His Father which is in Heaven.

    Peace and Love from "(the) Harvestcross"
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Frogman,

    I believe you are correct that the once a month meeting is the result of tradition originating from colonial days. I do not believe that it is the result of lack of preachers since most of the Old Regular services I have attended usually had 3-4 men preach and others who wanted to.
     
  4. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    The following is a brief summary of my belief in the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation of the Elect.

    Salvation, the Work of the Triune Godhead

    Salvation, the blessing of grace, is that work of the Triune God by which He eternally redeems and reconciles to Himself those chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4], freeing them from bondage to sin and His holy wrath. That salvation is purchased by the blood of the Incarnate Son [Romans 5: 9; Hebrews 9: 14; 1 Peter 1: 18; 1 John 1: 7; Revelation 1: 5; Revelation 7: 14], the blood of the everlasting covenant [Matthew 26: 28; Hebrews 13: 20], and is made effective in the life of the elect through regeneration by the Holy Spirit and union with Jesus Christ. Salvation from beginning to end is entirely by the Sovereign Grace of the Triune God.

    During his earthly ministry Jesus Christ expressed this truth by the following simple statements:

    John 5:21 KJV
    21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

    John 10:26-29, KJV
    26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.


    The doctrine of the sovereignty of God in Salvation is clearly expressed in the Covenant of Grace. This Covenant, an eternal covenant, is best understood as a covenant in which the three Divine Persons in the Godhead co-operate in man’s salvation [Psalms 2:8; 40: 6-8; 59:3; Isaiah 49: 3-12; John 17:6; Hebrews 13:20; Titus 1:2] and is summarized as follows:

    1. It is God the Father who foreknew and chose a people to be His own before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4].

    2. It is God the Son who agrees to humble Himself, take upon Himself the form of man, and die on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen to salvation so that none are lost [John 17; Philippians 2:6-10].

    3. It is God the Holy Spirit who agrees to apply the work of the Son to those chosen by God the Father and who regenerates and effectually calls those whom God the Father has chosen unto salvation [John 6: 37, 44; Ephesians 2:1-10].

    The Apostle Paul in his letter to the church at Rome clearly defines the sovereignty of God in salvation:

    Romans 1:16, KJV
    16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


    That the sovereignty of God is effective in the salvation of the elect is demonstrated in the following Scripture.

    Romans 8:28-30, KJV
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Ephesians 1:3-7, KJV
    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Ephesians 2:1-8, KJV
    1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    John 6:37-44, KJV
    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
    42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
    43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


    From this sampling of many such Scripture we see that:

    1. It is God the Father who foreknew and chose His people before the foundation of the world [Ephesians 1:4].
    2. It is God the Father who predestinated that His people would be conformed to the image of his Son [ Romans 8:30] that they might be adopted as His children [Ephesians 1: 5], made accepted in the beloved [ Ephesians 1:6] and become heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ [Romans 8: 16, 17].
    3. It is God the Son who humbles Himself, take upon Himself the form of man, Jesus Christ, and sheds His blood on a Roman cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen to salvation [John 17; Philippians 2:6-10].
    4. It is God the Holy Spirit, who applies the work of the Jesus Christ to those chosen by God unto salvation so that none are lost [John 6: 37, 39, 40, 44].
    5. It is the Triune God who, in time, will regenerate, call, justify, and glorify those whom He chose to Salvation before the foundation of the world, therefore, they can never fall away or lose that Salvation [Romans 8:28-30].


    The Holy Scriptures from the first words in the book of Genesis, In the beginning God created to the last words in the book of Revelation, The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen, are a testimony to the sovereignty of God. By sovereignty is meant, not simply the omnipotence of God, but the exercise of that omnipotence in the governing of all things. Similarly, from the shedding of blood to provide a covering for the nakedness of Adam and Eve, to the birth of Jesus Christ - God the Son, His death and resurrection, and finally to the declaration of His return in power and glory, Scripture clearly declares the sovereignty of God in salvation. God not only takes the initiative in salvation but completes that good work.

    Philippians 1:6, KJV
    6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
     
    #464 OldRegular, Dec 12, 2006
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  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

    Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

    Honestly if all people deserve hell then to what purpose was creation? Who would be to blame? Man? God? Who? Hyper-Calvinism and it's Hard Determinism ultimately blames God for a failed creation that only serves to demonstrate His authority? Are we to believe that God chief attribute is vanity?

    more later.

    Romans, chapter 11
    1": I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    "2": God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

    "3": Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    "4": But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    "5": Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
    (By Grace are ye saved through faith "believing") You must believe that I am He.
    "6": And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    "7": What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

    "8": (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

    "9": And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:

    "10": Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

    "11": I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


    1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Romans 10: (Aposltle Paul also)
    9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
     
    #465 Brother Bob, Dec 12, 2006
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  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    We are saved by Grace, through faith and not of our selves but it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast for we are His workmanship.
    Ephesians, chapter 2
    8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    "9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    "10": For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    "11": Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    "14": For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

    "15": Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    So here Apostle Paul is saying we are not saved by the works of the Law.
    Acts, chapter 16

    29": Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

    "30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    "31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    So here we see the same Apostle Paul says we do need the works of "believing". So let us rightly divide the word of truth. It takes "faith" in Eph: and it takes "belief" in Acts.

    Romans, chapter 8

    "28": And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    "29": For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    "30": Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
     
    #466 Brother Bob, Dec 12, 2006
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  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    A Gentle Warning

    Brethren, this is the Baptist History Forum not the Theology Forum. Please keep that in mind while discussing these matters.
    Robertsson the Northern Regular Baptist.
     
  8. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I apologize for my late post, however, Baptist History cannot be separated from Baptist Theology. Thomas Nettles in his book By His Grace and For His Glory describes the sad departure of Baptists from the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[Jude 1:3]
     
  9. old regular

    old regular Member

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    unable to post

    I have not been able to post for some reason ,after I hit submit reply, its lost and does not appear. Bro.Mike
     
  10. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Hit advance before you try to post and then post Bro Mike. It works better.
     
  11. old regular

    old regular Member

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    New Salem Association

    1The New Salem Association ORB has shifted it's doctrine back and forth through the years, most of the time it depended on who was their current leaders, the Articles of Faith they now carry, I can not find,nor believe that they were the original articles, Union has kept hers,Mates Creek has not ,Sandlick of Ky is the same as the Union and are most likely original,Sardis,NNS have altered theirs. In 1927 after the death of N.T Hopkins who appears to have had leanings toward the Arminian outlook, [not totally] The New Salem went right back to a very strong calvinistic position, this can be ascertained by looking at both the sermons preached and circular letters written, they were never to my knowledge absolute predestination ,but being a large association a small minorty could have existed among them, and they were most likely the ones who wrote in the Old Faith Contender, 1927 resolution number #4" Resolved, that we have the Articles of Faith,Rules of Decorum and Consititution printed in our minutes, WHEREAS, sometime since our association in the year 1888, there has been omitted from our minutes certain articles of faith ,and rules of decorum as PRINTED DIFFERENT to our original, for ,be it further resolved that we here by authorize the clerk to have printed the exact Rules of Decorum,Articles of Faith and Consitution as printed in our minutes in the year 1888." Note the articles then printed that year match the Burning Spring and the article on election according to the foreknowledge of God is listed as #4 I was told by some brothers of yesteryear that New Salems current Articles were never the legal ,as they were presented as the original and were not, and if anyone would take the time and read the records they would find this error, also that New Salem falsely stated that they had never been identfied with the Particular Baptist when they had churches in their own ranks that came from Particular Baptist and for years the corresponded with Mud River who came from a Particular Baptist Association and also part of the Friendship, It is my belief that these actions were through lack of knowledge of the facts, some believe it was done intentional, but as they are all deceased one may never know, the current articles however seem to include the same doctrines as the other except for the one concerning particular election and reprobation{double predestination, supralapsarnism was supposed to be their main intent}according to the old brothers it was placed to keep one from going to far in one direction,and the others were to keep you from going to far the other way, but as any historian can see New Salem has always had a mixture in the preaching department with one side or the other in control of the association, today it would be under leadership far more arminian than N.T Hopkins but not totally Freewill. Bro.Mike
     
  12. old regular

    old regular Member

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    New Salem Association

    1The New Salem Association ORB has shifted it's doctrine back and forth through the years, most of the time it depended on their current leaders, at the time in question.The Articles of Faith they now carry, I can not find,nor believe that they were the original articles, Union has kept hers,Mates Creek has not ,Sandlick of Ky is the same as the Union and are most likely original,Sardis,NNS have altered theirs. In 1927 after the death of N.T Hopkins who appears to have had leanings toward the Arminian outlook, [not totally] The New Salem went right back to a very strong calvinistic position, this can be ascertained by looking at both the sermons preached and circular letters written, they were never to my knowledge absolute predestination ,but being a large association a small minorty could have existed among them, and they were most likely the ones who wrote in the Old Faith Contender, 1927 resolution number #4" Resolved, that we have the Articles of Faith,Rules of Decorum and Consititution printed in our minutes, WHEREAS, sometime since our association in the year 1888, there has been omitted from our minutes certain articles of faith ,and rules of decorum as PRINTED DIFFERENT to our original, for ,be it further resolved that we here by authorize the clerk to have printed the exact Rules of Decorum,Articles of Faith and Consitution as printed in our minutes in the year 1888." Note the articles then printed that year match the Burning Spring and the article on election according to the foreknowledge of God is listed as #4 I was told by some brothers of yesteryear that New Salems current Articles were never the legal ,as they were presented as the original and were not, and if anyone would take the time and read the records they would find this error, also that New Salem falsely stated that they had never been identfied with the Particular Baptist when they had churches in their own ranks that came from Particular Baptist and for years they corresponded with Mud River who came from a Particular Baptist Association and also part of the Friendship, It is my belief that these actions were through lack of knowledge of the facts, some believe it was done intentional, but as they are all deceased one may never know, the current articles however seem to include the same doctrines as the other except for the one concerning particular election and reprobation{double predestination, supralapsarnism was supposed to be their main intent}according to the old brothers it was placed to keep one from going to far in one direction,and the others were to keep you from going to far the other way, but as any historian can see New Salem has always had a mixture in the preaching department with one side or the other in control of the association, today it would be under leadership far more arminian than N.T Hopkins but not totally Freewill. Bro.Mike
     
    #472 old regular, Dec 14, 2006
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  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    This is 1893 article of faith of the Sardis Association.

    6th: We believe in the free atonement of Jesus Christ and that He tasted death for every man and that salvation is offered to all men and women upon the terms of the Gospel.

    I think I can honestly say that all associations that correspond with the New Salem and also the New Salem itself will agree with the above article today.
     
  14. old regular

    old regular Member

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    Sardis Article

    Does the Sardis still carry that article? if not, why not, I do not doubt that most of your correspondence believe in the free atonement of Jesus Christ and that he tasted death for every man, the problem with that article which Old Friendship carries, and most United Baptist (which is what you are closer too, than the original Regular Baptist.)is not so much the atonement question, as far as Calvinist they are very much split on that issue, since Fuller, but its more with the terms of the Gospel, that would be the real question does the Sardis Believe that one can only be saved by hearing a local preacher, many who carry that article do. The New Salem Records are open to the public and the statements I have made can be found there, they were not originally to go too far into Fatalism or Arminism many felt though ,the beloved N.T Hopkins had went too far and even some of the Union brothers preached their text from Ephesians Chapter 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world......................." Some statements were made about the beloved N.T after he had taken ill, I do not recall the statement, and Union was dropped, these associations are falliable, and have been since the Jerusalem council, It is great error to argue against the word of God in favor of the traditions of men, the election was not for the Jews only, though granted there was a special remnant that was to be brought from the law and become the New testament Church, but that does not mean that God saves the Gentiles by their freewill and ability, or has two ways of saving people , Romans 9:23-24" Andthat he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? also look @ Acts concerning the Gentiles as many as were ordained to eternal life, believed God hath not appointed us to wrath but to obtain salvation, IIThess 2:13 also look @I Thess. 1:4 remember these are Gentiles that have the faith of God's elect Col 3:12 we could go on and on the old testament has many examples back to history The Sardis association when I visted had brothers who believed that God forknew his seed both Jews and Gentiles, that he manifested him self to all, Brother Wayne made the statement you could not be a good old Regular Baptist and not believe in predestination, none of these brothers advocated at any time absolute predestination nor did they advocate men turning around by their own ability, but believed that God elected a seed of faith that was promised to Abraham they did not touch the atonement, but I believe that they believed that Christ shed enough blood to save the whole world but it would only be applied to the believer, they did not hold foreknowledge and predestination as the same thing ,and stated that to do so has caused the Baptist much hurt. I knew Isom Hannah, Paul Vance,Joe Evans a brother Thornsberry,John Lowe, Edwin Hay , Tommy Dials, and many more they all seemed to have different opinions on many issues but they preached to gether, and I do remember that Isom Hannah preached at the Little Rebecca Church, Whom he did foreknow ,he also did predestinate etc........... and when he finished Edwin Hay followed and said Brother Isom does believe that men and women should repent, there may be a tape of that service somewhere but there are still people living that can attest to it. So look at Article 3 in the Sardis associations Articles of faith" We believe in the doctrine of election by Grace,for by grace are ye saved through faith. Article 4 We believe in the doctrine of original sin and of man's Inability to recover himself from the fallen state he is in by nature, therefore a Saviour is needed for our redemption.Now ask any theologian what those articles are stating, or look at your sister the Union's articles with the scripture proofs it is located on page 67 History Of the Regular Baptist, Do you believe these articles and their Bible Proofs? if so why can't we all come together under these articles , and the New Salems statements on Fatalism and works of the creature and try to reason with one anthor, when the Seperates and Regulars came together to form the Uniteds they had different views on some of these same items but made it no bar to communion, I listed some brothers from your own assocition that difffered on things but for years they got along How and why? And why can't all old regulars get along politics and envy, I was told it was the dress code, but I know different, there are most likely more sisters wearing pants on your side than in Thorton Union, I have seen Sisters from the Sardis,Old Friendship, NNS,Union, Indian Bottom wearing pants in public even serving brothers their dinner after church.I do not beleive in sisters wearing pants, make-up,cutting their hair, excessive adornments etc..., your sister associations say the same New Salem and Philadelphia, but what does Sardis practice on this issue?Food for thought, also how many times have the associations answered the adultrey question diffferently, or masonary,??? these associations shift with the politics of the day, and have been turned by the influence of popular preachers, instead of searching the scriptures and fasting and praying. Brother Mike P.S I still think there needs to be a doctine,faith and practice thread for the different factions of old school baptist. Also the Mates Creek nor the Sandlick at this time endorse absolute predestination of all things, nor would they endorse a brother advocating that God was the cause of ones sins, they to have shifted through different doctrines at one time MC was in correspondence with the Uniteds , also Indian Bottom Elders helped according to Sandlick history, ordain a Brother in the Sandklick after the split also Regular Baptist Elders ordained Elders in the Mountain, when they had no correspondence .today they would most likely exclude them, New Salem seated brothers from the a Primitive Baptist association in N.C under transientministers and members, the Union brothers and Mates Creek preached memorials together after the divide.MS
     
    #474 old regular, Dec 15, 2006
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  15. old regular

    old regular Member

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    Please note, that there are two who use the old regular login, one is capital mine is not, he is from S.C ,I am from Liberty ,Ky he is very knowledgeable in the Old Regular Faith and Order and I enjoy his posts, I believe he is some relation to one of the past moderators of the Old Union Association.Bro.Slone
     
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    You do know why Brother Edwin said when he came to the stand that Brother Isom does believe a man must repent, don't you? It was because Brother Isom and all of us fail to make things as clear as we should sometimes and it looks like we believe something to the extreme. Mike if you know Edwin Hay, ask him who has stood for the old time way all these years and been the spokesman for the strong ones, besides him and a few others. Brother Edwin, even though he is not longer with us, still come to where I moderate.

    You can take an article and read in in such a way as to go to the extreme one way. Or you can read it so that we believe the atonement was made, but a man must believe to receive it. We also believe, that the Spirit of God is striving with all men and only those who believe are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, Predestinated to be Justified by the blood of Christ, predestinated to be Glorified. We believe in a all knowing God who is everlasting to everlasting and knows the beginning from the end. Just because God knows who will believe and who will not believe, does not mean He caused it to happen that way.
    We believe that God is outside of time but does work in time when He wants, but being outside of time, He knows us before we are born, even from the beginning of time and also knows who will believe or not believe but does not cause it to happen that way. We believe because God is outside of time that He has already seen our death and resurrection. We believe He is our all and all.

    Here is our orders of today. I am sure these are New Salem's orders also.

    ARTICLE 4. We believe in the doctrine of original sin and of man's inability to recover himself from the fallen state he is in by nature, therefore the Saviour is needed for our redemption.
    ARTICLE 5. We believe that sinners are called to repentance and believe in the Gospel and regeneration of the soul and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, and none shall fall away and be lost.
    ARTICLE 6. We believe that sinners are justified in the sight of God only by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

    So, you see we are not so different from you. Its just we believe this opporunity happens to all.

    I have had some debates with the other Old Regular. I don't think he cares much for me. I am pretty plain in how I stand in the scriptures and I think offends some. I believe what I believe. Its not meant to offend any, but if those of us on here can't disagree and still debate then we shouldn't be on here.

    Mike, men will always change. It may come the time where we have to be completely alone. I fought the double marriage thing to the end and if you know anyone in the Sardis they will tell you who was the last one standing when they over ruled me. It took them over 30 years to get enough to out do those of us who still hold to the old doctrine on the double marriage. We do believe in the innocent party and the Church I take care of still works that way, regardless what the Association did.
     
    #476 Brother Bob, Dec 15, 2006
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  17. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Let me add that we believe the Spirit of God is there striving with all men, standing at the door of our heart and knocking. We must believe that Jesus is the Christ and let the Spirit lead us to Christ who is the one who saves man.
    We also believe if we don't ever make an attempt to change we will die and go to a devil's hell.
     
  18. old regular

    old regular Member

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    Old Regular Doctrine

    Brother Bob, I have never heard anyone preach in the Old Regulars who did not believe that the Holy Ghost reproves the world of sin, your statement that it is the believer that is justified, or is to be conformed to his image, would be accepted throughout the Regular Baptist, they may get to that point different than you would,but would not reject your statement, that Christ knocks at the door some would rebuke and say that he is talking to the members, of that church and that would be right, but through out the New Testament he spoke to the non-elect, he told them that they had not the Love of God in them, that they would not come to him, that they believed not because they were none of his sheep, I say that you answered well, much better than I thought you would , I may have misunderstood some of your debates, I read on here, Bro. Isom was not extreme, but a sound Regular Baptist who preached balanced. He gift was a very great loss. I am not a supralapsarian Calvinist though I have freinds who are but they are not Old Regulars . Bro.Mike
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I know it was the seven churches of Asia but they did not have Christ the ones He was speaking to so they could not of been the saved but the unsaved. It plainly says, if you will "open the door" I will come in and sup with you and you with me. There were many in the churches of those days who were not saved as there are some and maybe many today also who are not saved but are in the visible church but not in the "CHURCH". I think you will agree with that.

    I had gotten very close to Brother Isom and at last the wise old brethren had passed and Brother Isom had accepted me as one of the ones he turned to when things were going wrong. I remember one case in particular on the double marriage. I miss him and others. I miss Brother Ed May more than any, for he had a gift of holding everyone together. I am getting old in this myself Brother Mike. Are you really just 43?

    Mark 16:

    "15": And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    "16": He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

    Isa 45:22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

    Ecc 9:11I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race [is] not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread

    to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.


    Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    (you see they heard the word before they believed)

    No one has the love of God in them when they first hear the word.
     
    #479 Brother Bob, Dec 16, 2006
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  20. Brother Jeremy Slone

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    1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save theyself, and them that hear thee.
    Does Timothy need to be saved? I do not believe its talking about eternal life here but saved from false doctrine. The Church "old regulars" doesn't offer communion to non members but members. but some times the members do not take communion and miss out. I believe that Christ will sup with them was the Groom to the Bride. i believe She was the Bride.
    But yes many children of God in the Church need to be saved, not eternal but here in time. We need to walk closer. Romans 8:12-14 these are things that children of God in the Church need to do. most things in the bible address the children of God how to live here in time. But yes there are people in the visible who are not the elect of God and they have their agenda. This is why we as old regulars need to study our bibles and not wrestle a scripture to make it mean nothing. i don't want to kill the soft scripture or the hard.
     
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