Old Universe/Recent Biosphere

Let's see folks what God said to Job in Job 38.

God asked Job a question.

v. 4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?"

The implication is that the earth's foundation and the earth's biosphere are two different things, created at different times.

Does this agree with Genesis 1:1-2. Why yes it does!

In the beginning God created the heavens (celestial heavens) and the earth (the earth's foundation).

And what was the condition of this earth that God created in verse 1? It was empty and barren, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

How did God describe this to Job?

He said the seas were wrapped in thick darkness (38:8-9). Does this agree with Genesis 1:2? Why yes it does. The planet earth was surrounded by water.

That's what God created in Genesis 1:1-2. A planet wrapped in water and thick clouds.

This is irrefutable. This is the literal reading of the text.

At the end of Genesis 1:1-2 we have a universe created out of nothing, including the foundation of the earth, wrapped in darkness and water, and the Holy Spirit hovering over the surface of the waters.

God has yet to make the earth's biosphere in six literal 24 hour days.

This is irrefutable. This is the literal reading of the text.

Does Genesis 1:3ff agree with Exodus 20:11? Why yes it does.

For six days the LORD made the sky and the land, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.

Sure enough, beginning with day one God made day and night, the sky, the land, the sea, and all that was in them, the birds, plants, animals, and man. And then God rested.

Amazing. This is exactly what Exodus 20:11 says God did over a period of six days!

This is irrefutable. This is the literal reading of the text.

During the six days of creating the earth's biosphere, God himself defined shamayim, eres, and yam as sky, land, and sea. (Gen. 1:8,10).

God used these definitions for what he fashioned during the six days of making the earth's biosphere.

This is irrefutable. This is the literal reading of the text.

 

Exodus 31 is the same as Exodus 20.

The heavens and the earth are defined by God during the six days of making the earth's biosphere to be "sky" and "land."

v. 17 It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for six days the LORD made the sky and the land, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.

Again, this is exactly what God said he did in Genesis 1:3ff.

This is irrefutable. This is the literal reading of the text.

 

Michelle,

Why are you interpreting "stars" figuratively instead of literally?

Job 3:9 - the morning stars are literal stars.

Job 9:7 - the stars are literal stars.

Job 22:12 - the stars are literal stars.

Job 25:5 - the stars are literal stars.

Job 38:7 - the morning stars are literal stars.

Speaking of the earth: "who laid its cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and all the angels (sons of God) shouted for joy?"

The stars in the celestial sky sing! And science has proven this. Why aren't you interpreting stars literally when every other occurence of kokav is translated literally?

All four occurences in the Psalms are also taken literally.

In fact God knows each star by name (Psalm 147:4). So why can't literal stars sing?

You folks say that my interpretation isn't literal. O yes it is!

The stars sing! Literal stars!

 

I think its incredible the way the Word of God is just ignored by you young earth creationists!

You are just like the Roman Catholic church when it oppressed Copernicus for saying the earth revolved around the sun!

 

Brother James,

Humanist rubbish is what you are doing when you don't take the time to read the text for yourself, but instead impose your preconceived ideas on the text.

 

Helen,

You say Ex. 20 is not the same as Ex. 31, what you don't say how.

Perhaps if you knew Greek and Hebrew, you could look these verses up for yourself.

The truth is, you deny the very "words" of God himself as recorded in Genesis 1:8, 10, and then smugly walk away, as if you know more than God.

The literal words of God are "sky, land, and sea."

Do you deny this? Why yes you do.

You say Ex. 20 and 31 must refer to the creation of the universe when God defined the terms in Ex. 20 and 31 back in Gen. 1:3ff.

Therefore, using God's definitions, God is refering to the sky, land, and sea in Ex. 20, and sky and land in Ex. 31.

You are right about one thing.

If you don't want to discuss what God said and accept his terms, there is no sense talking to you. You deliberately refuse to look at the text itself.

 

Michelle,

The context of Job 38 is about the universe God created. If morning stars can be understood literally in this context, which it can, why do you change it to a figurative meaning.

Read all of Job 38 and tell me why "morning stars" must be figurative instead of literal stars.

 

Michelle,

I was wondering when you were going to bring up day four.

God didn't create the sun, moon, and stars, on day four, he made them appear by removing the clouds, so they could be seen from the surface of the earth.

Look at God's actions on each day.

Day one, God thins out the thick clouds enough to let sunlight penetrate to the surface of the earth. And there was light!

Day two, God pushes the waters apart forming the expanse. He calls the expanse, sky (shamayim).

Day three, God pulls the water under the sky back into one place revealing dry ground. He calls the water, seas (yam) and the dry ground, land (eres). He produced vegetation from the land.

Day four, God pulls the clouds completely back revealing the sun, moon, and stars.

Day five, God created sea creatures and birds.

Day six, God created animals and man. He made man by fashioning him out of the dust of the ground.

Day seven, God rested.

Michelle, all your talk about light sources and light being separate from light sources is "reading into the text."

God "fashioned" or "did" or "appointed" the sun, moon, and stars on day four. The Hebrew word is asa, not bara. On day four, God appointed the sun and moon to be lights to govern the day and night. V. 16 is better translated: "God appointed two great lights - the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also appointed the stars."

 

Michelle,

Job 38 is God pointing out to Job that Job doesn't know.

Job 38 records the very words of God himself.

I would think that you would take God's words more seriously.

 

I did a check of kokav in the OT. Not one reference to stars is taken figuratively.

In Job 38, the reference is to stars of the morning.
In Job 3:9, the reference is to stars of twilight.

Every reference is literal, including in Job 38 where God is speaking about his universe that he created!

 

No one has yet to disprove from the text of Scripture that God created the universe, including the foundation of the earth, in Genesis 1:1-2.

And no one has disproved from the text of Scripture that God fashioned the earth's biosphere (sky, land, and seas, and all that is in them) in Genesis 1:3ff. What's in the sky? birds. What's in the land, vegetation, animals, and man. What's in the seas? Sea creatures. Exodus 20:11.

No one has yet to disprove that the "six days of creation" refers to the earth's biosphere (sky, land, seas, and all that is in them) and not the creation of the universe out of nothing (Gen. 1:1-2).

What you are disproving is that you take the Word of God literally. You also disprove that you come to the Word of God without preconcieved ideas about what you think it says.

 

Michelle,

You wouldn't know "context" if it bit you in the rear end.

I wish you had a desire to know the truth instead of just debating.