On Abortion...again.

This is a hard topic to discuss. Not just for you, but for me also. (My reasons are different however). I love kids and babies. However, I feel alot more pain for the living than I do for the unborn.:tear: The kids who are born who will not live to be 20 will have to endure watching everyone else talk about what they want to be when they grow up. I feel for the kids who commit suicide because they are born in a world that will be hurtfull and discriminate for the slightest deformity. I feel for the kids who are born with mental illnesses and suffer everyday. (And no, you can't always just take a pill to make it better. I have someone close to me that suffers). I would feel worse for the kids who had by parents that were forced to have them. Could you imagine the life they will have if they don't kill themelves first? I don't know that I believe that EVERY conception is God's will simply because I don't see how it could be God's will for an innocent baby to suffer that harshly in life.

 

I believe I joined back in 2001. However, it was under a different email. I wasn't one of the first but considering it has been around for 8 years now, I was close to it. Since that email, which belonged to the university, doesn't exist anymore and I can't remember it, I was forced to start over. I really haven't been posting in years. I used to post in the KJVO stuff alot but that is headache I don't want to go back too.

 

It happens often. I was one and I know two people who commited suicide. Not to mention two people who were told their whole life they were not wanted and not meant to be. They have bi-polar disorder and take medication everyday so they don't kill themselves. Why don't you ask someone who has experienced this if the life outweighs the might?

 

All right, I look at post 72 and your post is nothing more than I have already commented before on. You can't compare cells developing as in like a tree to a human/animal to demonstrate life. I have commented on this before. As to the bible speaking about abortion, it doesn't. It doesn't speak against and it doesn't speak for it. We must draw our views from the bible. If you have noticed, every example used to demonstrate life in the womb is used from a verse refering to a prophet or Jesus. Besides that, here is an interesting passage: Exodus 21:22-25

"And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise" NASB

The words to comfort you in the NIV are "gives birth prematurely". The hebrew word here used is "yalad". It is used in the describing the process of something coming out. Even if this word is translated "gives birth prematurely", in those times it was nothing short of a death sentence. In this day and age, with all of our modern science, only about 60% of premature births actually survive. So one could imagine the chances then. We see the punishment for causing death. It doesn't say if it was murder or not, but as you see from the punishment, it wasn't treated as that and It is clearly left up to the husband for the punishment. What if the husband didn't want a baby anyways? So everything is cool? Huh, doesn't fly with murder. Now, He goes on to say that if there is any FURTHER "injury"....interesting. We notice that any harm to done to the mother is to be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc. How do I know this isn't refering to the womb? First, it's obvious. Second, the unborn don't have teeth.

 

No. I actually was looking for my old name myself. It's weird. I looked all throughout the 2000-2002 and the 2003. I had some other names too because I changed it. I had change the display name one time because a member complained it had "a negative conatation". Either way, I certainly no have reason to lie about. It's not like I get a trophy for knowing about this site for a long time. The only way I know to find my postings are to look through the Bible translations postings in those years. The problem is...that could take forever! I thought about doing it, but that would take hours/days. I really don't know if there is any way for the moderator to pull up info from an old email address.

 

No, Im not reaching at all. Im taking it for what it says. Just the same some of you might do when using verses refering to the womb are actually talking about the consecration of the prophet. Those verses are the ones that used to mean "universally" when they are not universal verses. They are specifically talking about prophets.

How is it inclusive of mother and baby? Please explain. I can debate this.:thumbs: If anything, it says "further injury", showing that the baby is part of the woman, not an alive, seperate being.

Do you believe that God's punishment for the "murder" of the unborn was simply fines, but the punishment for the murder of the mother was the murderer's death?

You, my friend, may be the one who needs to study this passage with the entire verse. Notice that even in verse 15 that a CHILD is put to death for hitting his parents.

 

On their value of life...

Leviticus 27:6. No baby under 1 month old had monetary value.

"But if they are from a month even up to five years old, then your valuation shall be five shekels of silver for the male, and for the female your valuation shall be three shekels of silver." NASB


The quality of life over life itself: Ecclesiastes 6:3-5 NASB
"If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things, and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, `Better the miscarriage than he, for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity. It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he.'"

Ecclesiastes 4:1-3 NASB
"Then I looked again at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun. And behold I saw the tears of the oppressed and that they had no one to comfort them; and on the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort them. So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun."


Now, let's talk.

 

You getting hateful, my friend.:tonofbricks:

 

Your worth fifty shekels of silver. Leviticus 27:3.

 

I did no such thing as twist scripture. It says what it says.

As for Jeremiah 1:4-10
"Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant."

It's very twisted how people use this verse. God "knew" jeremiah would exist and His plans for him. It does not mean that our souls are prematurely sitting in heaven. If they were, when were we created? When the angels were? One can see the flaw with this. Did God santify and ordain us prophets unto the nations or someone else taking a piece out of scripture to fit their beliefs? I really do pray for you all, that you would see the truth and not the lie from the "culture of christianity".raying:

 

One harming a mother and causing a miscarriage or premature birth resulting in the death of the baby is an act of God?