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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I have viewed this several times in the last few days.

    This is a clear presentation of the POSTMILLENIAL view of eschatology.

    It starts slow..{like the Kingdom,lol] but it walks the viewer through and gives a solid presentation of what people in the main part of postmillenial teaching believe.

     
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  2. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Long watch (1 hour and 52 seconds). I have read a few books on Postmillennialism, most notably Keith Mathison's treatment on the teaching. I am not convinced. I remain an optimistic Amillennialist.
     
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In the second half Doug Wilson , and Ken Gentry work through the main portions,with Steve Gregg .
    In the introduction they are addressing persons who only know the dispensational premill position,so it defines a few of the terms,and gives a brief overview from the early church,to Irving,and Darby.You could skip over that to get to where they answer some of the objections.
     
    #3 Iconoclast, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Who makes an hour long video to brag on their ignorance?

    Answer: those who know they don't know what they are talking about.

    The Old and New Testament Teach that Jesus' Second Coming is The End of The World.
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Brother, you lost me at Doug Wilson. I am not a fan of his.
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Iconoclast,
    First, thank you.
    That video argues post-mill mainly against pre-trib pre-mill view. And neither of those two views understands or knows the post-trib pre-wrath pre-mill view.

    A key argiment, is the interpretation that very generation of Jesus' disciples to whom He spoke would be the generation He referred to in Matthew 24:34. Where it is my understanding Jesus was speaking of those who would actually see the signs of the second appearing of the Son, Matthew 24:29-34, Revelation 6:12-17, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 9:28.
     
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  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    The Bible is also a book of History... Ancient History, not an imaginational journey, why don't some brethren use it?... Brother Glen:)
     
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  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I know...I was really put off from Him over the Auburn Ave. conference.
    I have seen him explain and recover himself from that.

    Here;


    I am trying to give him another chance, like a probation period.
    He is a very intelligent person, Home School people like him.

    At this point I view him somewhat like John Piper.
    He is not one of my go to guys, but can come up with things I would not.
    I consider what he offers.
    For example he was the first person I heard ask the question What if we are still the early Church?
     
    #9 Iconoclast, Sep 13, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    I am not sure I am following your meaning. Could you clarify what direction you are pointing to?
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    These men believe that.
    I am confident they know what they are talking about.
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    STUDYING THE BIBLE is FUN.

    THE WAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ENABLED to SHOW US
    that STUDYING THE BIBLE is FUN
    and WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND
    is by Following The HOLY SPIRIT and READING GOD'S WORD,

    employing Important common sense Interpretive Procedures:

    If one is to arrive at a correct understanding of the Olivet discourse,
    he must follow Biblical Principles of Interpretation
    (i.e. one must adopt a genuine
    grammatical-historical theological hermeneutic,

    meaning:

    grammatical = WHAT DO THE WORDS SAY?

    historical = WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE?

    theological = THE STUDY of GOD,

    hermeneutic = THE SCIENCE of "Interpretation")

    ...

    Some basic principles of Biblical Interpretation
    are as follows.

    (1) The section of Scripture in question
    ( Grammatically = WHAT DO THE WORDS SAY?)

    must be Interpreted in light of the original audience.

    ( Historically = WHAT WAS TAKING PLACE? )

    For example, would a first-century Jewish audience regard a phrase such as

    “blood, fire, vapor and smoke”

    THESE ARE BIBLE WORDS and GOD PUT THEM THERE.

    THE BIBLE CAN BE UNDERSTOOD.


    When The Bible Passage includes the Words

    “blood, fire, vapor and smoke”

    THEY WERE WRITTEN TO PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE,
    FOR THEM TO HEAR and UNDERSTAND, at THAT TIME.

    Acts 2:19, 20;

    "And I will show wonders in heaven above,
    and signs in the earth beneath


    -- blood and fire and vapor of smoke.

    "20 The Sun will be turned into darkness,
    and the Moon into blood


    before
    that Great and Notable Day of the Lord Come."

    ...

    Revelation 6:12; cf.;

    "And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and lo, there was a great earthquake,

    and the Sun became black as sackcloth of hair,
    and the Moon became as blood;


    "13 and the Stars of Heaven fell to the Earth,

    even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs
    when she is shaken by a mighty wind.


    "14 And the Heaven departed as a scroll
    when it is rolled together,


    and every mountain and island
    were moved out of their places."


    ...

    Joel 2:28-32;

    "And it shall come to pass afterward
    that I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh;


    and your sons and your daughters will Prophesy, your old men shall dream Dreams,
    your young men will see Visions;


    "29 and also upon the servants
    and upon the handmaids in those days
    will I pour out My Spirit.


    30 "And I will show wonders in the Heavens
    and in the Earth--


    blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

    "31 The sun will be turned into darkness
    and the Moon into blood,


    before

    The Great and The Terrible Day of The LORD Come.

    "32 And it will Come to Pass,


    that whosoever will call on The Name of The LORD will be delivered;

    because in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
    will be deliverance,


    as the LORD Has Said,
    and in the remnant whom the LORD Will Call."


    ...

    So, by INCLUDING ALL BIBLE PASSAGES,
    and READING GOD'S WORDS,

    "GRAMMATICALLY" and "HISTORICALLY",

    as to, "WHAT DID THOSE WORDS MEAN
    to THE PEOPLE WHO THEY WERE WRITTEN TO?

    would we 'come up' with "blood and fire and vapor of smoke",

    as 'referring' to 'nuclear war' (??)

    or
    that, "blood and fire and vapor of smoke"

    are OLD COVENANT PROPHETIC IMAGES

    THAT GOD HAS ALREADY PLACED in THE OLD TESTAMENT

    TO "PICTURE":

    God's Impending Judgment on Israel?

    See How FUN that is?

    And How IMPORTANT it is, SIMPLY to READ THE BIBLE?

    That was with One common-sense Principle of Bible Interpretation.
    ...

    Here is a second Principle of Bible Interpretation

    that MAKES BIBLE STUDY FUN.

    (2) Scripture must be used to interpret Scripture.

    In Matthew 24, Jesus uses terminology
    that comes directly from the Old Testament Prophetic books.

    What makes more sense:

    using the Bible to give us the meaning
    of such Apocalyptic Images,


    in THE BIBLE'S OWN WORD PICTURES,


    or using 'speculations',
    PURELY DREAMED UP, OUT OF NOWHERE (???)
    'founded' upon the New York Times or Newsweek?


    ...

    Thirdly,

    (3) One must Interpret Biblical Passages according to their Literary Type.

    Many Prophetic passages use the poetic metaphor
    and the "Word Pictures", of Apocalyptic Imagery.

    Apocalyptic or poetic imagery must be treated in a different manner
    than a straight-forward Historical account.

    Once again the key to understanding Prophetic Imagery

    (e.g., Stars falling from Heaven,

    the Sun becoming dark,

    the Sky rolled up like a scroll
    , etc.)

    is to see how such Imagery is used in the Bible,

    rather than 'use' (??) current events
    and modern scientific discoveries to 'speculate',


    OUT OF THIN AIR (??),
    and "INVENT" IMAGINARY TRASH about supposed:

    nuclear war,
    bar codes,
    computer chips in the hand and forehead,
    attack helicopters,
    tanks, etc.


    THE BIBLE DEFINES IT'S OWN "WORD PICTURES".

    Most books THAT PEOPLE HAVE 'REASONED OUT with THEIR MIND,
    which HAS BEEN EFFECTED by THE CURSE of SIN

    and 'attempt' to say they are writing on 'Prophecy' today
    are COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED Exegetically from the Biblical text

    for ANY Critical explanation or analysis, to INTERPRET WHAT GOD SAYS

    and thus are nothing more than the 'clever fantasies' of the different authors,

    WHICH ARE MEANINGLESS, OTHER THAN BEING BLASPHEME.

    ...

    Forth:

    (4) The time indicators, HISTORICALLY,

    within the discourse and the immediate context that relates to the discourse

    (e.g., MATTHEW 23:36;

    "Truly I Say to you,
    all these things Will Come upon this generation"


    must be taken into account when determining the meaning
    of this section of Scripture.

    The time indicators (if taken at face value,
    i.e. according to the normal etymological meaning)

    prove that Jesus’ discourse in Matthew 24,
    up to verse 24:34,
    WHEN JESUS SAYS,

    "But of that Day and Hour, knoweth no man,
    no, not the Angels of Heaven, but My Father only."


    must be applied directly and solely to Christ’s Judgment upon Jerusalem
    and the Complete End of the Jewish age.

    (This point will be discussed in more detail

    AND ONCE YOU 'GET THAT',

    YOU WILL KNOW WHAT GOD WANTS YOU TO UNDERSTAND

    ABOUT THE REST OF THE BIBLE and "THE END TIMES".)

    ...

    Fifth:

    (5) Whenever one is Interpreting a section of Scripture
    in the synoptic gospels

    (i.e. Matthew, Mark and Luke),

    parallel accounts should be carefully compared and analyzed.

    Because, HISTORICALLY, Matthew wrote to a predominately Jewish audience

    while Mark and Luke wrote to a predominately Gentile audience.

    Therefore, if Matthew uses a phrase from Old Testament History
    or Poetical Prophetic Imagery that would be obscure
    or difficult for a Gentile audience,

    the other gospels should be checked for clarification.
     
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  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    ...

    Please, JOIN ME, with The HOLY SPIRIT,
    as we begin our Investigation into

    WHAT DOES GOD WANT US TO UNDERSTAND?
    IN THE BIBLE?:

    First, we 'check' the other accounts
    written by other Apostles, of The SAME EVENT:

    (e.g., the Disciple's Question,

    MATTHEW 24:3;

    "And as He sat upon the Mount of Olives,
    the Disciples came to Him privately,


    saying, "Tell us, when will these things be?

    And what will be the sign of Your Coming

    and of The End of The World?"


    MARK 13:4;

    "Tell us, when will these things be?

    And what will be the sign
    when all these things will be Fulfilled?"


    and

    LUKE 21:7;

    "And they asked Him, saying,
    "Master, but when will these things be?


    And what sign will there be
    when these things will Come to Pass?"


    ...

    And, again, regarding

    The Abomination of Desolation, we 'check' the other viewpoints of it,
    written by another Inspired Author of the Bible.

    MATTHEW 24:15;

    "When you, therefore, will see

    The Abomination of Desolation,
    spoken of by Daniel the Prophet,


    standing in the Holy Place
    (whoso readeth, let him understand)",


    we compared with;

    LUKE 21:20;

    "And when you will see Jerusalem
    compassed with armies,


    then know that
    The Desolation thereof is near.... "


    For anyone to 'look to see' what they dream up as being

    "The Abomination of Desolation,
    spoken of by Daniel the Prophet",


    OTHER THAN:

    "And when you will see Jerusalem
    compassed with armies,


    then know that

    The Desolation thereof is near.... "

    would need to know better,

    FROM

    GOD'S REVELATION to MANKIND,

    THE ETERNAL WORD of GOD,

    THE HOLY BIBLE.

    *****
     
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  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I will Interpret Matthew 24, to be Jesus' Answers
    to The Disciples THREE Questions, as so, in Matthew 24:3, when;
    ...
    FIRST:
    " ... as He Sat on the Mount of Olives,
    the Disciples came to Him privately,
    saying,
    Tell us, when shall these things be?"
    ...
    When shall "What Things be" ?
    ...
    Regarding the Immediate Context,
    previously,
    where Matthew 24:1 & 2 State:
    ...

    1 "And Jesus went out, and Departed from the Temple:
    and His Disciples came to Him
    for to show Him the buildings of the Temple.

    ...
    2 And Jesus Said to them,
    See you not all these things?
    Truly I Say to you, There shall not be left here
    one stone on another, that shall not be thrown down."
    ...
    So, in this First of Three Question
    by The Disciples to Jesus,

    "When shall 'What Things' be" ?
    is
    Answered by Jesus,
    Regarding ,
    WHEN:

    "There shall not be left here
    one stone on another,
    that shall not be thrown down".

    ...

    And "When" is that ?
    ...
    The Passage from
    Matthew 24:4-14,
    Gives all the Preliminary Things Jesus Said Would Take Place
    PRIOR TO:
    "then shall the end come"
    in Matthew 24:14;
    ...

    WHAT END ?
    ...
    THE END of THE TEMPLE:
    that
    Jesus and His Disciples ARE DISCUSSING;
    ...
    WHEN:
    "There shall not be left here
    one stone on another,
    that shall not be thrown down",

    at THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM.
    ...

    Everything Contained in Matthew 24:4-14;
    Is PRIOR TO THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM,

    including; Matthew 24:14;
    "And this Gospel of the Kingdom
    shall be Preached in all the World
    for a Witness to all Nations;

    and then shall the End Come."
    ...
    These Following Words SPEAK of
    all the Preliminary Things
    Jesus Said Would Take Place PRIOR TO:
    "then shall the end come"
    in Matthew 24:14;
    which is Concerning,
    THE END of THE TEMPLE
    and
    ARE SAID by JESUS to Take Place
    PRIOR TO THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM.
    ...
    NONE OF THESE WORDS
    ARE REFERRING TO, "THE END of THE WORLD",
    IN ANY WAY.
    ...
    There is No "Double Fulfillment"
    of Jesus' Prophecy
    AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT,
    "the entire Chapter 24 of Matthew
    has already taken place".

    No.
    ...
    I am saying that what I believe is what Jesus Says,

    in Matthew 24:4-34 HAVE TAKEN PLACE
    Concerning,
    THE END of THE TEMPLE
    and ARE SAID by JESUS to Take Place
    PRIOR TO THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM.


    and Matthew 24:35-51
    DESCRIBE "THE END of THE WORLD",
    the way Jesus Says it does.
    ...

    Jesus FIRST Prophesied "The End" of The Temple
    and THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM,
    which then HAPPENED,
    as Recorded in Matthew 24:15-34.
    ...

    FIRST: ALL THESE THINGS, in Matthew 24:4-14,
    TOOK PLACE PRIOR TO

    "THE END of THE TEMPLE"
    and THE JEWISH NATION
    at THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM,

    ...
    THE ACTUAL, HISTORIC, END of THE TEMPLE"
    and THE JEWISH NATION at

    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM,
    then HAPPENED,
    as Recorded in Matthew 24:15-34.

    ...
    "Take heed that no man deceive you."
    ...
    Ether.
    ...

    Here is HISTORY,
    FIRST, PRIOR to "THE END",
    when Titus' Armies Poured Out
    GREAT TRIBULATION,
    SUCH HAD NEVER BEEN SEEN,
    UPON THE JEWISH PEOPLE
    and
    THE TEMPLE,
    TO THE EXTENT THAT
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST PROPHESIED:
    "There shall not be left here
    one stone on another,
    that shall not be thrown down".

    ...

    BEFORE THAT "GREAT TRIBULATION"
    Titus' Armies Poured Out
    UPON THE JEWISH PEOPLE
    and

    THE TEMPLE, WHAT TOOK PLACE IN HISTORY,
    LEADING UP TO THE ANSWER TO THEIR QUESTION,
    "Tell us, when shall these things be?",
    ...
    JESUS ANSWERED,

    THAT THESE THINGS WILL OCCUR,
    FIRST, "then shall the end come",
    of THE TEMPLE, etc.
    ...
    con't: What will occur FIRST,
    BEFORE The End of The Temple?
     
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  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    WHAT WILL OCCUR, FIRST,
    BEFORE "THE END of THE TEMPLE" ?
    ...
    4 "And Jesus Answered and Said to them,
    Take heed that no man deceive you".

    ...
    False Christs:
    ...
    5 "Because many shall come in My Name,

    saying, I am Christ;
    and shall deceive many.
    ...
    6 And you shall hear of wars
    and
    rumors of wars:
    see that you be not troubled:
    for all these things must come to pass,
    but the end is not yet.
    ...
    7 For nation shall rise against nation,
    and
    kingdom against kingdom:
    and
    there shall be famines, and pestilences,
    and earthquakes, in divers places.
    ...
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    ...
    Witnessing to All Nations:
    ...
    9 Then shall they
    deliver you up to be afflicted,
    and shall kill you:
    and you shall be hated of all nations
    for My Name's Sake.
    ...
    10 And then shall many be offended,
    and shall betray one another,
    and shall hate one another.
    ...
    11 And many false prophets shall rise,
    and shall deceive many.
    ...
    12 And because iniquity shall abound,
    the love of many shall wax cold.
    ...


    13 But he that shall endure to the end,
    the same shall be saved."
    ...
    ENDURE TO THE END OF ?
    THE TEMPLE at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM
    when:
    "The Abomination of Desolation"
    TAKES PLACE.

    ...
    Which, in context,
    13 "But he that shall endure to the end,

    the same shall be saved."
    is RESTATED as JESUS DESCRIBES WHAT WILL
    ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE
    DURING: "The Abomination of Desolation"
    AND THE END OF THE TEMPLE
    at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM:
    ...
    22 "And except those Days should be shortened,

    there should no flesh be Saved:
    but for the Elect's Sake

    those Days shall be shortened."
    ...
    In other Words,
    13a "But he that shall endure to the end,"

    OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION
    WHICH IS DURING:
    The Abomination of Desolation

    AND THE END OF THE TEMPLE
    at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM:

    13b "the same shall be saved."
    ...
    OTHERWISE:
    24:22b "there should no flesh be Saved:
    but for the Elect's Sake
    those Days shall be shortened."

    ...
    AGAIN,
    ONE MORE VERSE,
    BEFORE: The Abomination of Desolation.
    ...
    JESUS SAID, IN ANSWER TO
    24:3b "WHEN SHALL THESE THINGS BE ?"
    ...
    24:14 "And this Gospel of the Kingdom
    shall be Preached in all the World
    for a Witness to all Nations;
    and then shall the End Come."
    ...
    THE "END COME" OF ?
    THE TEMPLE at THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM
    when: "The Abomination of Desolation"
    TAKES PLACE.

    ...
    Then,
    WHEN THE DISCIPLES DO SEE:
    The Abomination of Desolation, THE "END OF ?
    THE TEMPLE at THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM

    when: "The Abomination of Desolation"
    TAKES PLACE
    IS:
    "THE SIGN" of JESUS COMING
    in PROVIDENTIAL JUDGMENT,
    AGAINST THE JEWISH PEOPLE

    and
    THEIR NATION AT JERUSALEM,

    which is
    JESUS' ANSWER
    to THEIR SECOND QUESTION:
    ...
     
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  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    SECONDLY:
    "and
    what shall be the sign of Your Coming,"

    which
    IS IN REFERENCE TO ?
    "The Abomination of Desolation"

    &
    "The 'Coming' of the Son of Man",
    when the Son of Man is Seen Coming,
    IN TEMPORAL,
    PROVIDENTIAL JUDGMENT,
    UPON THE NATION of ISRAEL,
    at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM;

    ...
    27 "Because
    as the lightning comes out of the east,
    and shines even to the west;

    so shall also
    the Coming of the Son of Man be.

    ( When:
    the Son of Man is Seen Coming
    IN TEMPORAL, PROVIDENTIAL JUDGMENT,

    UPON THE NATION of ISRAEL,
    at THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM,

    AS:

    The Roman Soldiers of Titus
    SWOOP IN FROM ALL SIDES,

    "as the lightning comes out of the east,
    and shines even to the west",

    AND THAT EQUALS:

    "You Better DROP EVERYTHING
    and RUN !!!!!!!!!
    ...
    In Context:
    16 "Then let them which be in Judaea
    flee into the mountains:
    ...
    17 Let him which is on the housetop
    not come down to take any thing
    out of his house:
    ...
    18 Neither let him which is in the field
    return back to take his clothes", etc., etc.

    ...
    28 Because wherever the carcass is,"
    ( The Death of Jewish People and Nation at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM )
    ...

    "there will the eagles be gathered together"
    ( Roman Soldiers ).
    ...

    THE DISCIPLES SECOND QUESTION, THEN:
    "and
    what shall be the sign of Your Coming,"
    is in Regard to:

    "The Abomination of Desolation"
    &
    "The 'Coming' of the Son of Man",
    when the Son of Man is Seen Coming,
    IN TEMPORAL,
    PROVIDENTIAL JUDGMENT,
    UPON THE NATION of ISRAEL,
    at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM;


    and is Answered by Jesus, in Matthew 24:26-35
    AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING
    THAT THESE PASSAGES REFER TO

    AND NOT:
    "THE END of THE WORLD".
    ...
    24:34 "Truly I Say to you,
    This generation shall not pass,
    till All These Things Be Fulfilled."

    ...

    WHAT GENERATION?
    ...
    THE NATURAL GENERATION
    of INDIVIDUALS LISTENING
    to JESUS SPEAK
    THESE PROPHETIC WORDS.

    ...

    UNTIL, ALL of WHAT ?
    "Things Be Fulfilled"?
    ...
    "The Abomination of Desolation"
    &
    "The 'Coming' of the Son of Man",
    when the Son of Man is Seen Coming,
    IN TEMPORAL,
    PROVIDENTIAL JUDGMENT,
    UPON THE NATION of ISRAEL,
    at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM.
    ...

    con't
     
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  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    THIRDLY:
    The Disciples had asked Jesus:
    "and
    of the End of the World?"

    ...
    Regarding What?
    The End of the World,
    friend.
    ...
    Regarding
    The End of the World,
    in Matthew 24:36;
    JESUS SAID,
    "But of that Day and Hour
    knows no man,
    no, not the Angels of Heaven,
    but My Father Only",

    ...

    WHAT "Day and Hour"?
    ...
    We know from previous verse,
    in Matthew 24:35;
    WHEN:
    24:35 "Heaven and Earth
    Shall Pass Away..."
    ...
    In other Words:
    24:26a "But of that Day and Hour..."
    WHEN:
    24:35a "Heaven and Earth
    Shall Pass Away..."

    JESUS
    Answers in Matthew 24:36-51.
    ...
    This means that
    "The SECOND COMING of JESUS",
    IN JUDGMENT,
    AT THE END of THIS AGE,

    is:
    THE END of THE WORLD
    and
    Remains Exclusively
    What The Bible Says

    THE END of THE WORLD
    is,
    as well as, WHEN: Jesus Said,
    in Matthew 24:37, 42 & 44;
    ...
    24:37 "But as the days of Noe were,
    so shall also

    The Coming of the Son of Man be"
    ( at THE END of THE WORLD )
    ...
    24:42 "Watch therefore:
    for you know not what Hour
    your Lord Does Come."
    ...
    24:44 "Therefore be you also ready:
    for in such an Hour as you think not
    the Son of Man Comes."
    ...
    Regarding:

    17 "Then we which are alive and remain
    shall be Caught Up Together
    with them in the Clouds,
    to Meet the Lord in the Air:
    and
    so shall we Ever Be with the Lord."

    ...
    So, there should be

    NO REFERENCE
    to Matthew 24:4-35,
    Regarding,

    "THE END of THE WORLD",
    made by "Preachers", or "Authors",
    because,
    Matthew 24:4-35
    ONLY REFERS, EXCLUSIVELY, to:
    The Death of Jewish People and Nation at
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM.

    ...

    ALL of THE "ISSUES"
    in these VERSES
    from Matthew 24:4-14,

    TOOK PLACE PRIOR to
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM
    AND
    DO NOT "REFER TO"
    or "APPLY" to ANY
    "END of THE WORLD"
    that
    JESUS TALKS ABOUT:

    ...
    Matthew 24:5b;
    “many shall come in My Name,
    saying, I am Christ;
    and shall deceive many”

    Matthew 24:6a;

    “you shall hear of wars
    and
    rumors of wars”

    Matthew 24:7;

    “nation shall rise against nation,
    and
    kingdom against kingdom:
    and
    there shall be famines, and pestilences,
    and earthquakes, in divers places”

    Matthew 24:9;
    “Then shall they
    deliver you up to be afflicted,
    and shall kill you”

    Matthew 24:11;
    “many false prophets shall rise”

    Matthew 24:12, 13;
    “…iniquity shall abound,
    the love of many shall wax cold.”
    ...
    “But he that shall endure to the end,
    the same shall be saved."

     
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  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    IN ADDITION:
    ALL of THE "ISSUES"
    in these VERSES
    from Matthew 24:15-35;

    TOOK PLACE DURING
    THE DESTRUCTION of JERUSALEM
    AND
    DO NOT "REFER TO"
    or "APPLY" to ANY

    "END of THE WORLD"
    that
    JESUS TALKS ABOUT:

    ...
    Matthew 24:15;
    "When you therefore shall see
    the abomination of desolation,
    spoken of by Daniel the Prophet"

    Matthew 24:21;

    Because then shall be great tribulation,
    such as was not
    since the beginning of the world
    to this time,
    no, nor ever shall be."

    Matthew 24:22;

    "except those days should be shortened,
    there should no flesh be saved"

    Matthew 24:24;

    "Because there shall arise false Christs,
    and false prophets,
    and
    shall show great signs and wonders;
    so that, if it were possible,
    they shall deceive the very Elect."

    Matthew 24:27;

    "Because as the lightning comes out of the east,
    and shines even to the west;
    so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
    ...

    Matthew 24: 28;
    "Because wherever the carcass is,
    there will the eagles be gathered together."
    ...

    Matthew 24:29;
    "Immediately
    after the tribulation of those days
    shall the sun be darkened,
    and the moon shall not give her light,
    and the stars shall fall from heaven,
    and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

    ( Question:
    Do we need to look up references
    in The Bible to:

    "the sun be darkened,
    and the moon shall not give her light,

    and the stars shall fall from heaven",
    in order to arrive
    at the Biblical Interpretation?
    ...
    Answer: We need to do that

    in order to arrive
    at the Biblical Interpretation
    of every other Scripture,
    don't we?

    ...
    Hint: "Luminaries such as these
    "pictured" Joseph's family
    "Bowing Down to him",
    in one of the dreams he had, right ?
    ...
    Genesis 10:9;
    And he ( Joseph )
    dreamed yet another dream,
    and
    told it his brothers, and said,
    Behold, I have dreamed a dream more;
    and, behold,
    the sun and the moon
    and
    the eleven stars
    made obeisance
    ( deference, homage )
    to me."
    ...
    And in Genesis,
    at The Creation of "The Sun"
    and "The Moon",
    they are respectively Said
    to DO WHAT,
    "Over The Day" and "Over The Night" ?
    ...

    "RULE" !,
    "GOVERN" !

    ...
    Genesis 1:16;

    "And God Made Two Great Lights;
    the Greater Light to Rule the Day,
    and
    the Lesser Light to Rule the Night:

    He Made the Stars also."
    ...
    Now go to get your
    Divine Interpretation of
    Matthew 24:29;

    "Immediately
    after the tribulation of those days
    shall the sun be darkened,
    and
    the moon shall not give her light,
    and
    the stars shall fall from heaven,
    and
    the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

    ( all speaking of "Rulers"/ "Governors"
    of various degrees )
    ...

    Matthew 24:30;
    And then shall appear
    the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
    and then
    shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
    and they shall see the Son of man
    coming in the clouds of heaven
    with power and great glory.
    ...

    Matthew 24:31;
    And he shall send his angels
    with a great sound of a trumpet,
    and they shall gather together his elect
    from the four winds,
    from one end of heaven to the other.

    Matthew 24:34;

    Truly I say to you,
    This generation shall not pass,

    till all these things be fulfilled.
    ...
    AS FAR AS,

    THE END of THE WORLD,
    WITH JESUS' SECOND COMING,

    JESUS SAID:
    "No Sign Shall Be Given".
    ...
    Matthew 16:4;

    "A wicked and adulterous generation
    seeks after a sign;
    and
    there shall no sign be given to it,
    but the sign of the prophet Jonas.
    And he left them, and departed."

    ...
    TRY TO READ THESE PASSAGES
    from
    GOD'S ETERNAL WORD,
    One More Time:

    ...
    24:37 "But as the days of Noe were,
    so shall also
    The Coming of the Son of Man be"

    ( at THE END of THE WORLD )

    24:42 "Watch therefore:
    for you know not what Hour
    your Lord Does Come."
    ...
    24:44 "Therefore be you also ready:
    for in such an Hour as you think not
    the Son of Man Comes."

    Regarding:

    17 "Then we which are alive and remain
    shall be Caught Up Together
    with them in the Clouds,
    to Meet the Lord in the Air:
    and
    so shall we Ever Be with the Lord."

    ...
    Many God-Called,
    Ordained Landmark Baptist Preachers,
    COULDN'T PREACH
    THE COMING of JESUS
    OUT of A WET PAPER BAG.
    `...

    It doesn't help that Matthew 24 has needed to be
    "Interpreted BY THE BIBLE", Divinely.

    Then, we have people who talk about a 'trib', or 'mill' this, that, the other, and Tom, Dick, and Harry that is all....EXTRA-BIBLICAL.

    Try finding them in these 66 verses, JUST from The Gospels and New Testament without Revelation:

    9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.

    JESUS CHRIST IS COMING BACK, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH WERE.
     
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  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying they know they are wildly, rashly guessing, and not only do they know that, THEY KNOW what they are saying is Not Bible Teaching.

    THEY "KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE ARRIVED AT" THROUGH IMAGINATION.

    IT'S NOT IN THE BIBLE.

    Try finding a 'trib' or 'mill' this or that thingy mah-bob in these 66 verses,
    JUST from The Gospels and New Testament without Revelation:


    9.0.0 > NT Intro iv: SIXTY-SIX NEW TESTAMENT Verses Teach The SECOND COMING of JESUS CHRIST & THE END of TIME.

    JESUS CHRIST IS COMING BACK, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH WERE.
     
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

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    Brother, even a broken clock is right twice a day, but that does not mean I use it to keep time. I am even becoming less of a fan of James White, even though James and I are aligned theologically. I think it has more to do with my increasing disdain for Christian celebrities.
     
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