1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

"Once saved, always saved"--Fact or Fiction?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by bmerr, Aug 11, 2005.

  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Hi bmmer,

    You have declared in the another thread that the only way a person can become "in Christ" is through water baptism.

    "In Christ" is the only way to be saved, correct?

    If one is not "in Christ" one is lost, correct?

    At what instance would a person be considered lost after having been in Christ through water baptism?

    You believe that water baptism gets one into Christ, what then gets one back out of Christ?

    And once one is back "out of Christ", must they be baptised again to get back into Christ? If not, then water baptism would not be the only way into Christ as you stated in other post, correct? Unless, once saved and then lost they can never be saved again.

    God Bless!
     
  2. Briguy

    Briguy <img src =/briguy.gif>

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    1,837
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi bmer,
    Just thought I would add something to what Lloyd said. Remember who wrote the word "shipwreck"? It was Paul, the man that survived a few literal shipwrecks. Do you see where I am going. He was in the shipwrecks but survived. A ship being beat up and sinking is a picture of struggling faith but not salvation being taken away or lost. Paul lived through the shipwrecks, though they were unpleasant. To him they were not ultimatly destructive, just really bad to go through. I will stop there as I am sure you see my point.

    Also, you said that when we accepte what Jesus did on the cross for us it only took away our past sins. The reason I think you are wrong about that is very simple. The NT is clear that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. If somehow our present and future sins were not forgiven when we trusted Christ, there would still need a system of blood sacrifice. Now, you said we can go to Jesus again and repent and be forgiven again. That seems to say that when Jesus shed his blood it covered the future sins I would do or Jesus would have to shed his blood again all the time, or I would have to offer sacrifices. You see, the shedding of blood by jesus covered all our sins, we both know that no more blood has to be shed, so the future is taken care of. Here is the issue. You say the blood of Jesus is only good enough to wash away all the sins I've done up to the day I got saved. You put a limit then on the Blood of the Lamb. I say that the blood of Jesus is so powerful and so perfect it washed me clean forever and ever. You say the blood of Jesus has a limit and is like a car wash. A car can get dirty again and need to be washed again. I believe that the blood of Jesus washes me so clean and applies a special wax (of grace and mercy) that no dirt would dare to ever stick on the car (me) again.

    Now, would view do you think at least sounds like it is dealing with the all knowing, all powerful God of the universe??

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  3. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greetings to all – especially Bmerr the ex-baptist (but still saved in spite of drifting from the faith and landing shipwrecked in the theology of humanism) and confused apologist (yet my Christian brother through faith in Christ - alone).

    No doubt you will return a similar salutation. The silly salutation emphasizes that one can be a Christian and yet be a publisher of the anti-Christ doctrine of humanism. We all share in an innate depravity so dark and deep that we truly cannot fathom its offensiveness to God. Praise be to God for the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to salvation to every one who believes – whether or not they can pass a theology test!

    Hopefully, these posts will show you the difficulty of humanism with regard to OSAS. I especially wish to remind you of:
    __ my post on covenant,
    __ my post on Jesus as SURETY, and
    __ Briguy’s post on the certain enduring knowledge of eternal security in 1 John 5:13.

    Do you not agree that these three posts are insurmountable evidence for OSAS? Your response to date has used a hermeneutical ploy that pits one part of scripture against another part. Is God divided? Can the Bible say “YES” and “NO” at the same time? Instead of pitting one set of verses against another, can we not discover a unifying theme that integrates both sets of verses?

    I believe that your system of progressive salvation cannot adequately address and integrate these three posts. Indeed, I believe that your denomination does not ever preach on any of those topics for that very reason.

    I hope that these exchanges will show you the biblical system that holds justification in parallel with – yet distinct from – sanctification can handle both your zeal for human righteousness AND my zeal for Christ’s righteousness!

    Unconditional covenant, certain knowledge of eternal life, and Jesus as SURETY.
    This spells OSAS to me - in spite of many dire warnings of faithfulness and endurance.

    Anxiously awaiting your honest genuine response(s).
    Lloyd
     
  4. Frank

    Frank New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    0
    The two shipwrecked men must repent to be saved. One cannot get to eternal glory with unforgiven sin held to their account. II Cor. 5:10, Romans 14:12.
    These men had cast off or shipwrecked their faith. This would endanger them at the judgment. Paul states in the second epistle God knows those who are his. How? They depart from iniquity. II Tim. 2:17-19. For example a christian who lies and does not depart from it will live in eternal damnation. Rev. 20:10.
    The blood of Christ is effective in cleanisng us when we are walking in the light, not the darkness. I John 1:7.
     
  5. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greetings Frank

    First, I John 1:7.
    Context! We must understand I John 1:7 in context with the verse that comes just prior. There, John exposes a false claim of having fellowship while walking in the light. I John 1:7 isn't a continuous action, it is a contrast of life with darkness. The cleansing occurs with the gnomic (timeless general truth) key "all." This isn't a continuous operation. It happened once for all time at the Cross because Jesus then SAT DOWN (Heb 1:3, 10:12). If sins aren't paid in full, then we are in BIG trouble because He won't ever again stand up to perform this priestly rite.

    Second, shipwreck.
    Even if a person is shipwrecked and produces only worthless works of wood, hay and stubble and suffer loss of everything in the fires of judgment, THEY ARE STILL SAVED (I Cor 3:15).

    Even if a person is shipwrecked and delivered to Satan, THEY ARE STILL SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus (I Cor 5:5).

    Shipwrecked is NOT a synonym for eternal damnation.

    Lloyd
     
  6. riverm

    riverm New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi ascund:

    I just recently completed a bible study on the book of Revelation and since I’m not a “Greek scholar” two verses caught my attention and has actually caused me to take a second look at this OSAS theory. Maybe you can answer these two verses.

    First is Revelation 22:14-15: Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

    Second is Revelation 22:19: And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    Here at the end of the bible I read Jesus giving a stern warning and what got my attention was that that if anyone takes away from the words of the book, the God shall take away his part in the book of life.

    I don’t see this warning directed at nonbelievers, because how can a nonbeliever have a share in the tree of life? Looks to me that this warning is directed right at the believers. What think ye?
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    shpwrecked,,if they were saved in the first place! I don't think they were.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi riverm

    Oh oh. You realize that I'm just another foolish person with very limited ability to look into the deeper things of God's Word.

    Rev 22:14-15
    This seems the easiest of what you posed. Who are those who do God's commandments. Well, there are two dimensions of commandments. For unbelievers, they are commanded to believe in Jesus (John 3:15-16, 6:28-29; I John 5:3-5). This leads to the destiny eternal life.

    Believers are commanded to be perfect - even as God is perfect. Rewards for this are determined at Jesus' judgment seat for believers (1 Cor 3:11-15).

    So believers in Jesus have the destiny and right to the tree of life; unbelievers have the destiny of the Lake of Fire are the dogs outside.


    Rev 22:19
    Uncle! I can only respond in a general way that heavenly rewards are determined by faithfulness, obedience, and endurance. Heavenly rewards are not eternal destiny.

    The Textus Receptus, on which the KJV rests, reads "the book" of life. Other manuscripts read "the tree of life." Check out the NET Bible translator notes: http://netbible.bible.org/ , then click on NET Bible on the left, then click on NET Bible Verse with Frames on the left, then go to Rev 22, then go to verse 19, then click on footnote 37.

    So even those who botch things here on earth might only get to eat of that tree once in a while - or get the smallest fruit - or something else.

    Not a good response.
    Best I can do. Perhaps others can add their 2 cents.

    Lloyd
     
  9. qwerty

    qwerty New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

    Only the Lord knows those who belong to Him. We can have all the opinions we want on who we think is saved or not saved. Only the Lord knows for sure.

    We can have an accurate view of those we think are saved by the second part of the inscription.

    "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

    This is how we know who we can walk with and trust in this life. Those who turn away from wickedness are the most likely to be saved. But this is only in our sight. Again, only the Lord knows for sure.

    Then there is the case of the pretenders. And why they would pretend to know the Lord through this life is far beyond me!

    MT 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    We can know if we have a relationship with the Living God, Who is Father, Son (the Lord Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit.

    Sometimes, the relationship can be not quite what it should be. Consider the prodigal, and the elder brother. Both had problems with their relationship with the Father, but both were sons.

    If the prodigal had died in the far country, he was still a son. It took the prodigal's leaving home to reveal both the prodigal's heart, and the heart of the elder brother.
     
  10. riverm

    riverm New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi ascund: Thanks for the answer, it wasn’t what I was looking for, but don’t feel too bad, both my pastors whom both have their doctorates are still working on this for me.

    I liked the netbible link you provided and I looked up a verse you referenced me to:

    1 Corinthians 3:11-15: For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    I’m familiar with this verse, but as I read on in verses 16 and 17 I read this: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    I may be reading this wrong, but to me here in verse 16, Paul is writing to the Christians in Corinth and stating that they are the temple of God and that His (Gods) Spirit dwells in them, but then in verse 17 Paul says that if they defile the temple of God, God will destroy them.

    If I am reading this right and we are saved Christians and the Spirit of God is dwelling in us, what can we as saved individuals possibly do that is so offensive to God that He would destroy us?

    The netbible didn’t want to footnote this, so what are your thoughts?
     
  11. riverm

    riverm New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    1
    I really hate to nit pick, but I’ve always been afraid growing up to question anything I’ve read in the bible in regards to doctrine, I guess it was my stricked fundamentalist upbringing, you know how those individual infallible popes can be, but any way, it seems that now that I am 34 and have kids I’ve somewhat slowed down, and I’m now actually beginning to see things that I either was told wasn’t there or was irrelevant.

    Seems like this past year I’ve been on a spiritual journey and all these denominations all basing their doctrine off their interpretation of the bible has gotten my head spinning so fast that I actually getting confused…enough rambling.

    In Revelation 22:14 we see our Lord say Blessed are those who do His commandments… The word commandments is plural and I am aware that some translations reword this, but since I’ve been raised on the KJV and have even been told that God preserved the KJV (and I don’t believe that, btw), I’d like to stick to the KJV’s translation of Revelation 22:14.

    Seems like that there is much more than just believing. Please don’t get me wrong, that is a big factor playing in our salvation, but Christ said commandments not commandment. Do you see what I’m seeing here?
     
  12. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Greetings

    Double Yikes!!
    Double Yikes!!

    First, I'm not God to know what counts for death. Paul delivered the immoral guy in 1 Cor to the destruction of the flesh. I don't dare speak beyond this.

    Second, who says God kills people for sins? Death is already incurred as a curse from The Fall.

    A second no-good answer.
    While bmerr and mman clearly botch theology, you ask some tough questions that reside in the gray area.

    Lloyd
     
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    According to Scripture, can God's life cease to exist?

    Yes or No and Why? please give scripture that supports your answer.

    God Bless!
     
  14. ascund

    ascund New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Steaver

    Your Question is very vague.

    How do you define God?
    __The Trinity?
    __Just Jesus?

    How do you define life?
    __Physical Life?
    __Spiritual Life?
    __Eternal Life?

    This doesn't fit well with OSAS.
    LLoyd
     
  15. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Scriptures clearly teach that once someone is saved, he can be lost.

    Christians can fall from grace (Gal. 5:4; Heb. 12:15).
    Christians can stray from the truth (Ja. 5:19).
    Some Christians will depart from the faith (1 Tim. 4:1-3; cf. Col. 2:16-23; 1 Tim. 6:21; Ja. 5:19-20).
    Christians can fall away from God (1 Cor. 10:12; Heb. 3:12; 6:4-8 ).
    The branches in Jesus that do not bear fruit are taken away, cast into the fire, and burned (Jn. 15:1-6). Because, they do not keep Jesus' commandments (Jn. 15:10).
    The apostle Paul knew that he could be lost after being saved (1 Cor. 9:27; Phil. 3:12-14).
    Some Christians had already turned aside after Satan (fell away) during the first century (1 Tim. 5:15; 6:21).
    False prophets and false teachers lead some Christians away from God by exploiting them with deceptive words (2 Pet. 2:1-22; 3:16; Acts 20:28-30).
    Therefore, Christians are admonished to:

    obey and work out their own salvation with fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12).
    take heed lest they fall (1 Cor. 10:12).
    endure, not throwing away their confidence and shrinking back to destruction (Heb. 10:35-39).
    be nourished in the words of faith and in the sound doctrine (1 Tim. 4:6-10).
    take care that they are not hardened by the deceitfulness of sin having an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God (Heb. 3:6-15).
    be diligent to enter heaven, lest they fall away (Heb. 4:11).
    be diligent to make their calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10).
    exercise their senses to discern good and evil by becoming skilled in the word of righteousness (Heb. 5:12-14).
    An unfortunate result of the vast popularity of Calvin's doctrine (once saved, always saved) is that many people believe they can do anything and still be saved. If there ever was a lie, this is it (Jn. 8:44; 1 Jn. 2:4, 21; Rev. 21:8).
     
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Bible talks about something called THE BOOK OF LIFE.

    The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: "The judgment was set, and the books were opened." The revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12.

    The book of life contains the names of all who have ever entered the service of God. Jesus bade His disciples: "Rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:20. Paul speaks of his faithful fellow workers, "whose names are in the book of life." Philippians 4:3. Daniel, looking down to "a time of trouble, such as never was," declares that God's people shall be delivered, "everyone that shall be found written in the book." And the revelator says that those only shall enter the city of God whose names "are written in the Lamb's book of life." Daniel 12:1; Revelation 21:27.


    Well the problem is that once IN the book of life, you can be taken OUT of the book of life:


    Revelation 3:5: He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
     
  17. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
    -note that Christ is speaking to His disciples here, not the world.

    Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    -now we know that we are saved by grace and not works, but conduct plays a part in our eternal destination.

    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

    -notice it's not enough merely to know that he is Lord (or even to call him that), but we must "do" the will of God.

    Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

    -note that sin/iniquity will cause many to lose their love (just like the church at Ephesus in Rev.chpt2) Also note that it's not how you start the race, but how you finish!

    Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    -this is an interesting parable of the Lord reckoning with "his servants". It is a fearful thing for those who have produced no fruit for the kingdom of God

    Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it

    -It's important to note here, that both of these individuals heard the word, but only the one who obeys the commands of God can know that he is resting on the rock!

    Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

    -note that this person "heard the word", "received the word (with joy)", "believed for a while", but ultimately "fell away". So we see that it is possible to begin the race, but not finish.

    Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

    -it is interesting that Christ used the term "cast away"- this term is used by the apostle Paul in I Cor. as well, and refers to the special punishment of an apostate believer.

    Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

    -self-explanatory verse indeed. Let us not be as Lot's wife, who should have escaped destruction but looked back.

    Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    -A few things I would like to draw your attention to. First, this is a "servant" looking for "his LORD". Next notice the statement he makes "my Lord delayeth his coming". This would not be applicable to an unbeliever, as we know they are not looking for the return of Christ. Note that he also begins to live an immoral lifestyle as a result of his judgement that his Lord "delayeth his coming". If he were an unbeliever, he would already be committing these types of sins, not just then entering into them. Maybe most importantly, note that this "evil servant" is given his portion with "the unbelievers" (note it doesn't say with the other unbelievers). The fact that Christ makes this dichotomy, speaks volumes to the fact that this individual was indeed a believer. Also supporting this view, is the fact that Christ further states that a person who "knows the LORD's will" and doesn't do it, is in worse shape than the one who "knew not" the LORD's will!

    Also from the gospel of John:

    John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    This parable emphatically renounces the doctrine of o.s.a.s. Note in verse 2 that the branches "IN HIM" that do not bear fruit will be taken away. Notice in verse 6, if a man does not "ABIDE" (or remain/continue) in Christ he is cast forth "withered" (indicating it used to be alive) and cast into the fire.

    Look at the parable of the prodigal son.

    Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons: 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living. 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 15:14 And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15:15 And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 15:16 And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 15:17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 15:18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. 15:25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. 15:26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. 15:27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: 15:30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

    Just a few quick notes about this parable. Note both of these were SONS (verse 11). Note also that in verse 24 that the son was dead and is alive "AGAIN" (implying he was alive to begin with!) Verse 32 also echoes this thought. Remember Ephesians 2 refers to the time when we were "dead in trespasses and sins" and Jude speaks of those "twice dead".


    more warnings from Acts and the epistles

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

    -the early church knew it was important to CONTINUE in the faith. They didn't merely hold an evangelistic crusade, and send the folks on their way with an easy-believism message, they CONFIRMED the souls of the disciples and exhorted them to "CONTINUE IN THE FAITH".


    Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    -note first off Paul proclaims that we stand "by faith". Also he states that we shouldn't be cavalier about the matter, but rather take heed. Of special emphasis is verse 22 which states we will be "cut off" if we don't CONTINUE in his goodness.


    I Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours

    I Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    -this couldn't apply to unbelievers, as their bodies do not contain the Holy Spirit in their temple.

    I Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    -remember the letter is addressed to believers, and yet why all the warnings if there were/are no consequences.

    I Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Even the great apostle Paul knew of the possibility of falling away. Modern translations of the bible have watered down this verse, and most liberal commentaries state that Paul was only speaking of rewards being lost. But notice the pronouns I, my body, it, I, I, myself. Note also Paul uses the term "castaway" (same greek word used for reprobate in other places). Remember earlier in the gospels, Jesus had warned about man losing his soul or becoming cast away.

    I Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

    They are referred to at least 3 times in the new testament as an example for believers NOT to follow. (I Cor, Hebrews, Jude). Chapter 10 is a continuation of the warning Paul gave in chapter 9:27 (note chapter 10 begins with "moreover"indicating a continuation of thought). The wilderness wanderers are a type or foreshadowing, if you will, of the Christian life. First we leave the "Egyptian bondage" of sin. Remember Ephesians 2 refers to the time when we were "dead in trespasses and sins". Then we have the baptism experience that they had. Remember they passed through the cloud and the sea. We are baptized with water and the Holy Ghost. Jesus said that those that believe in Him would have "living waters" flowing from his innermost being. But they never made it to the promised land. We look for a city "which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God" Notice in verse 11 that it says these things were written for OUR EXAMPLE, and finally he says in verse 12 to take heed, because the possiblity of falling exists.

    I Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain

    -We stand by faith, but if we do not keep in memory those things that we have learned, it is possible to "believe in vain". There are a lot of those IF-THEN statements in the bible.

    II Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

    - refer to the commentary above.

    II Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    Why do we need to examine ourselves, if it is a once-for-all done deal? Let us heed the warnings of scripture and keep close watch on our eternal souls!

    Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor

    -the modern twist on justification by faith is a perversion of the gospel. Truly we are justified by faith, but that faith is not a license to sin. For if we go back to our old way of life, we become a transgressor (one who breaks the laws of God).

    Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

    -the possibility of falling from grace exists, and mere human good works are equally dangerous if trusted upon for righteousness.

    Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

    -remember this letter is written to Galatian believers (just like the Corinthians who received a similar warning). He is emphatically renouncing the teaching that a person can live an immoral lifestyle, and go to heaven.

    Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

    -again, this doesn't sound like the modern message of "everything's ok, once-saved-always-saved". We ought to give the most earnest heed to the most important thing........our eternal destination!

    Col. 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    -yet another of those IF-THEN statements of the bible....pretty self-explanatory again.

    I Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

    Here we see the importance of spiritual maturity when it comes time to appoint elders to the local assembly. Timothy is warned that a recent convert should not be placed in a position of spiritual authority because his pride could cause him to fall under the same judgement/condemnation of the devil. We know that the devil's judgement is none other than the lake of fire.

    this person is a "convert" ( I must ask what have they been converted to? Is it not Christianity?). #2 this person is in danger of falling under the same judgment of the devil.

    I Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

    -you can't "depart" from the faith, if you're not "in the faith" to begin with right?
     
  18. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    THE BOOK OF HEBREWS

    The book of Hebrews completely destroys the pillars of the o.s.a.s foundation, causing it to crumble. Often, those who do accept the doctrine taught in Hebrews, dismiss the warnings given as being only for the Jews. The only problem with that, is that they have no problem accepting the blessings given in the book (intercessory prayers of Christ, supernatural faith, divine provision, access to the throne of grace, etc.). But if one aspect of the book is to be applied to Christians, then so should the "whole counsel" of the book. That being said.....let's take a look.

    Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end

    -yet another IF THEN statement, showing the necessity of overcoming, perservering faith in the Christian life.

    Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin

    -here we see that not only must we take heed, but that sin, can adversely affect our faith. It is also worthy of note that the phrase "departing from the living God" is used. Just as I Timothy 4 stated, it is possible to depart from Him. He said he would never leave or forsake us, but we are creatures of free will and must make the decision whom we will serve.

    Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    -remember earlier in I Corinthians, we were introduced to the "wilderness wanderers" who are our example NOT to follow. Verse 14 starts out with one of those IF-THEN statements demanding overcoming faith. Again, it is noted that SIN has an adverse affect on our faith. And remember we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. And that we stand "by faith".

    Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it

    -again we see we should not be cavalier about our eternal destination, but have a godly fear.


    Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned

    It is apparent that this is speaking of a BELIEVER!!! Notice he is "once elightened", "tasted of the heavenly gift" (the greek word for taste is the same one used when an earlier text stated Christ tasted death for every man!), " were made partakers of the Holy Ghost" (you cannot partake of the Holy Ghost by merely attending church, taking communion, being baptized, participating in rituals. You are only a partaker of Him, when He is in you!), he has "tasted" the good word of God, and finally enjoyed the "powers of the world to come" (It would be impossible for an unbeliever to be granted this priviledge by God! I don't know of too many unbeliever/sinners who have enjoyed the powers of the world to come!)

    Also, I would like to add that is not for us, as Christians to say when a person has "fallen away" to such a place. We should defer all judgement unto the Son. The phrasing here of falling away, doesn't seem to imply simply a mistake made by a believer, for truly no one is without sin. Forgiveness is the priviledge of every born-again believer according to I John 1:9. This seems like a much more serious offence of turning one's back on God altogether.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    The myth that all of our past, present, future sins are already forgiven is shattered. (v.26) Next notice that is is a far worse punishment for the one who hath counted the blood werewith he was SANCTIFIED (impossible that this could refer to anyone but a believer) than for the one who had never known the way of truth. Verse 30 is clear.....he will judge HIS PEOPLE. We would do well not to water-down the fear of God (which scripture says is "the beginning of wisdom").

    Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears

    -the absolute need for holiness is exemplified here- without it NO MAN (including a believer) will see the LORD. Verse 15 speaks of the dangers of "failing" of the grace of God. The old testament example of Esau is applied here. Remember Jesus asked, what would a man give in exchange for his soul?



    James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    -James asks a simple, but powerful question. Does merely believing without action bring about salvation? An interesting plumb line is established. If you merely believe, but do not obey the word of God, there is no difference between that and what the devils do. Harsh language indeed, but the truth will make us free. Verse 20 states that type of faith is not a living/saving faith, but a dead one!

    James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

    -note it is written to the "brethren" who have "erred from the truth" (how can you err from the truth if you were not previously established in the truth?).

    I Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    -note that we are kept through faith and we've already learned about living and dead faith

    I Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

    -If we're going to see the Lord, we're going to have to be holy, as he has commanded us. We're also not supposed to spend our time here in a state of ease. Remember the warning "woe to them who are at ease in Zion"?

    I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    -Remember in Hebrews, it says the Lord will judge his people. Powerful imagery is used here with words like "scarcely"!

    II Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

    -Peter is admonishing those who have forgotten that they were "purged" from their old sins. Verse 10 tells us what our attitude toward eternity should be......give diligence-not slothfulness to our eternal calling and election. The good news is, if we do those things, he says we shall never fall.

    II Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    -any time liberty is preached as a license to sin, corruption is the end result. This warning echoes that of Hebrews chapters 6 & 10. Note the person had "escaped the pollutions of the world" and "turned from the holy commandment". There would be no need to emphasize that they RETURNED to their lifestyle, unless they had escaped it through Jesus earlier! From WASHED to wallowing in the mire. What an image!

    II Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

    -we are supposed to be diligent and not slothful when it comes to personal holiness. It is interesting to note that false teachers would "wrest (or twist)" the writings of Paul to their own destruction. Also we must be on guard of "falling" from our steadfastness, which could lead to spiritual destruction.

    I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. -Yet another IF-THEN statement of the bible. Of course, what is the implication there if you don't confess ? ? ?

    Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

    -the doctrine of o.s.a.s is exactly what verse 4 describes..."turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness". Now look at verse 5, and you have yet another reference to the "wilderness wanderers", who started out well, but never made it to the promised land!

    Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 1:13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever

    -it is noteworthy that they are "clouds without water" whose "fruit withereth" (implying it had borne fruit at one time) , and was "twice dead" (remember the prodigal son) . Such an individual is referred to as a "wandering star" destined for blackness of darkness!

    Revelation 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent

    -note that these people had "fallen" and needed to do the "first works" or else their candlestick would be removed.

    Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

    -this group had heard and received the LORD, but if they didn't repent they would be in danger of possibly missing out on the rapture, or even worse having their name blotted out of the book of life.

    Revelation 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    -again he is talking to the CHURCH (which is not a building but the people), and they are warned that they will be spewed out of His mouth if they don't repent. (sidenote: How could they be spued/vomited out, if they were not 'in Christ' to begin with?

    Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book

    -again this possiblity of being taken out of the book of life is presented by the LORD. Why would He even mention it, if it were not a possibility. And how could it be taken/blotted out, if it were not in there to start with? Here's another verse to confirm this.

    Exodus 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    FINAL DIRE WARNINGS FROM EZEKIEL
    Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

    and again.........

    Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    and again.........

    Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die

    and again.........

    Ezekiel 33:12Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

    and finally...........

    Ezekiel 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
     
  19. riverm

    riverm New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2005
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi Claudia_T:

    Johns recount of the Last Supper has always been a little suspect for me in regards to OSAS. It doesn’t make sense when Christ tells us that IF we keep His commandments (again commandments is plural) we will remain in His love. But he who does not remain in His love is …cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

    If salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in His love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling him to remain there. IF they were unable to leave, it would be utterly senseless to ask them to remain.
     
  20. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    The books of record in heaven, in which the names and the deeds of men are registered, are to determine the decisions of the judgment. Says the prophet Daniel: "The judgment was set, and the books were opened." John the revelator, describing the same scene, adds: "Another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Rv:20:12

    When judged according to their works, how many will learn, too late, that their religion was but a glittering cheat, unacknowledged by Jesus Christ.
     
Loading...