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Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Eladar, Sep 14, 2001.

  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The one who said no and went afterward had a change of mind, that is he repented. Repentance is a change of mind. It is specifically a change of mind in respect with my attitude to God. Once my attitude to God was rebellious. Then I repented, had a change of mind, accepted Him as Saviour, submitted to His will, made Him the Lord of my life. My attitude toward God was changed. It was turned around 180 degrees. I was now going the opposite direction. Now I was going down the road of obedience to God instead of disobedience. Thus is the picture of this son. He first said no. He repented--had a change of mind, and was obedient. This is doing the will of the Father, believing on Him whom He has sent. That is when God grants salvation, and the gift of eternal life. The other son made a false profession, otherwise he would have obeyed.
    DHK
     
  2. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    I don't remember Jesus ever saying the one who actually did the will of the father ever saying he would. He never made a profession, he just did it.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Tuor,
    This is a parable. A parable is meant to teach one central truth. The truth that Jesus was teaching here is what true repentance was. Jesus clearly says about the first son that "afterward he repented and went" (Mat.21:29). In verse 31, He asks: "Whether of them twain did the will of his father?" His disciples answered him: "The first." In other words the one who repented did the will of his father. This is the teaching of the parable. From that one basic teaching it is our duty to compare Scripture with Scripture. Scripture teaches us elsewhere that repentance leads to salvation. Without repentance there is no salvation. Unless you repent you cannot be saved. Thus the one who repented was the saved individual. Scripture also teaches us elsewhere: "For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves; it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8,9). We know that he had eternal life because he was saved and from other Scriptures such as these which teach that God gave him eternal life. But the primary singular teaching of the parable is that the first son REPENTED, and thus did the will of the Father.
    DHK
     
  4. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Matthew 21
    28
    ""But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, " Son, go work today in the vineyard.'
    29
    ""And he answered, "I will not'; but afterward he regretted it and went.
    30
    ""The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, "I will, sir'; but he did not go.
    31
    ""Which of the two did the will of his father?'' They said, ""The first.'' Jesus said to them, ""Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.

    You will notice that the first son didn't repent, he just regretted saying that he wouldn't. There is a difference between repentence and regret.


    But then again, what was that work that the prostitutes and tax collectors do that the Pharasees did not? They repented and believed in Jesus Christ as Lord. I guess it all falls back on what is the will of God? What does the working in the field represent? Does the last statement mean that the Pharasees will go to heaven, just they'll be getting there later than the tax collectors and prostitutes?

    [ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't know what translation you are using, but it clearly is not the King James. The King James says "repent." It is an accurate translation.
    "repented and went" (metamelhqeiv aphlqen). This word really means "repent," to be sorry afterwards, and must be sharply distinguished from the word metanoew used 34 times in the N.T. as in Mat_3:2 and metanoia used 24 times as in Mat_3:8. The verb metamelomai occurs in the N.T. only five times (Mat_21:29, Mat_21:32; Mat_27:3; 2Co_7:8; Heb_7:21 from Psa_109:4). Paul distinguishes sharply between mere sorrow and the act "repentance" which he calls metanoian (2Co_7:9). In the case of Judas (Mat_27:3) it was mere remorse. Here the boy got sorry for his stubborn refusal to obey his father and went and obeyed. Godly sorrow leads to repentance (metanoian), but mere sorrow is not repentance. (Robertson's Word Pictures)
    DHK
     
  6. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    I used the NASB. According to the Zondervan exhaustive concordance, the greek word used for regret was "metamelomai", which is from "meta" and "melo".

    According to the concordance, the word "metanoeo" is what is used for repent, at least that is the word that used for repent in Matthew 3:2 , 4:17 and 11:20. It is also used in Acts 2:38, 8:22, 17:30 and 26:20.

    As I said, this is all according to the concordance. It also says that repent is a translation of it, I believe it is saying that regret is a more common translation of the word "metamelomai".

    [ September 25, 2001: Message edited by: Tuor ]
     
  7. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Is there a contradiction between what the KJV uses to translate and the NASB? I don't know Greek at all, so I really don't know.

    If anyone is knowledgeble on the subject I would appreciate some help here. [​IMG]
     
  8. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Which of the two did the will of his father? Jesus forced the Pharisees to testify against themselves. The point of the parable was that doing is more important than saying (7:21–27; James 1:22). They had to acknowledge this, yet in doing so they condemned themselves. The idea that repentant tax collectors and harlots would enter the kingdom before outwardly religious hypocrites was a recurring theme in His ministry, and this infuriated the Jewish leaders.

    As far as the meaning of metamelomai, I think repented, changed his mind, regretted all convey the same meaning; not much to be gained in disecting that.

    Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    Once we are imputed righteousness, we become God's workmanship, and then and only then can we do righteous good works. Prior to our salvation:

    Isaiah 64:6a (ESV)
    We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
     
  9. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Thanks John!
     
  10. Nicole

    Nicole New Member

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    The way I have been taught is that God left here on earth the Holy Spirit which indwells all christians. He didn't however, REMOVE our "free-will" We still have the choice of whether we will sin or not. The difference is that because of the Holy Spirit being in us, we have that choice. A lost soul does not. Example, say I was a child, a christian no less, and I disobey my parents, yes, I'm sinning, but Jesus's blood on the cross has covered my sins, all, past, present and future. I still need to repent, but that is to restore fellowship with him, not to restore my salvation. Say you have another child, who is not saved yet, he obeys his parents. He's STILL sinning. The reason being is the motive. Because he does not have that relationship with Christ, the motive behind his obedience is self-serving, it is not to honor Christ. Christ gives those who know Him the ability NOT to sin. We can make the choice and choose not to sin, the lost cannot. In whatever they do, it is not done to honor Christ or to glorify Him. Maybe this doesn't make a lick of sense, I wouldn't be offended if anyone said it didn't...I'm running a little slow tonight, I had another transfussion today..so please, bear with me! [​IMG]
     
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