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Featured Open Baptists & Paedobaptism

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    That is an odd construction of the Regulative Principle as I have always understood it, and at odds with the way you defined it as well:
    Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by “any practice”?
    I have not heard that terminology, but in recent years Steve M. Schlissel of Messiah’s Covenant Community Church in Brooklyn has promoted what he calls the Informed Principle of Worship. It seems like a compromise between the Normative Principle and the Regulative Principle. Someone explained it this way:
    • If the Bible commands it, should we do it? Yes!
    • If the Bible forbids it, should we do it? No!
    • If the Bible neither commands or forbids it, should we do it? It depends …
    Might come out similarly to what you suggest.
     
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  2. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    I don't. Please explain it succinctly with scriptures.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think that many who are now saved by the Lord will desire to obey Him and follow now in believers baptism! We do not require it to be done to get saved, but to be a member need to be believers baptized...
     
  4. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    It is highly debatable that the passages you referenced are even discussing water baptism.
     
  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    That's not the question. The question is whether those who've already been baptized as infants should be baptized again, as a condition of joining a Baptist church.
     
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Yes, and that's traditionally the non-Baptist Reformed understanding of infant baptism, that baptism itself isn't regenerative, but instead that it symbolizes one's entrance into the covenant.
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Here's the rub. A person who is drawn to faith at any age, but was baptized as an infant can honestly say they have been baptized and they are a believer. Have they fulfilled the command to be baptized?
     
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  8. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Can a person who was baptized as an infant, as an adult, be baptized by the Holy Spirit, without needing to be baptized by water again?
     
  9. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    You are starting from a false premis. The infants which the paedobaptists believe have been baptised, have not been baptised. Therefore there is no "re-baptising" of anyone.

    Therefore the question really is "Should someone who hasn't been baptised be allowed to join membership of a Baptist church?"
     
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  10. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    If water baptism is symbolic anyway, isn't baptism of the Holy Spirit what ultimately matters? I am not saying that Baptist churches should practice infant baptism. This is a question related to the acceptance of adult members who've already been baptized as infants.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Right. It is a covenant view that Reformed Baptists also hold. We just do a baby dedication and wait to see about baptism. The question becomes: Which practice is more biblically sound?
     
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  12. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Let's be honest. American Baptists today are some of the worst paedobaptists on the planet.

    For example, how many Baptist churches are using silly means like fire trucks to entice kids into baptism, before they are even mature enough to repent and believe themselves?

    How many of these kids will grow up with the false assurance that they can live like unbelievers the rest of their lives and still go to heaven because they got baptized in a fire truck at vacation Bible school?
     
    #32 Humble Disciple, Jul 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I see no reason not to. See Acts of the Apostles 10:34-48. They received the Holy Spirit and not yet being baptized with water. Water baptism is not part of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 1:17. Only comes with the gospel.

    Only immersion is "baptism." And only immersion with one's profession of the faith is Christian baptism. A religious rite called "baptism" does not make it baptism.
     
    #33 37818, Jul 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.
    As a Baptist, I will never die on the hill of paedobaptism. I am simply pointing out that the person seeking membership has been baptized into the covenant as a child and now has confirmed his faith. Does God require a second baptism in order to be obedient to the ordinance of baptism? I don't see any scripture that would make such an argument for a second baptism. I also don't find an explicit argument for infant baptism. So, it seems that both sides are arguing from a normative procedure rather than a regulative position.
     
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  15. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    That's a odd thing for a Baptist to say. This is what Baptists believe.

    "But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptised, both men and women." - Acts 8:12

    "Peter replied, “Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

    "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" - Matthew 28:19 (are the unregenerate disciples?)

    "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." - Galations 3:27 (are the unregenerate in Christ?)


    Belief/Faith then baptism.
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Funny; I'm having a discussion with a "regenerational Baptist" on the CARM site. That person tried to tell me that, because I had to wait to be baptized for several months due to weather(Our church has no natatorium & baptizes in a creek) that I was not saved til then. I asked him when he acquired JESUS' authority to say when one was saved. I knew what I felt at the time & I was eager to be baptized, but had I died before I was baptized, I would've been just-as-saved as I am now.

    My $0.02 is that the result of baptizing an unsaved person is a wet sinner, regardless of age. And every new Christian should be baptized ASAP. That includes those who were baptized before their salvations.

    And they WERE baptized. Remember, "baptize" means "to immerse in water", regardless of purpose.
     
  17. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    Baptists. i don't like baby dedications, it seems like a modern invention. Theology within baptist church (and others) is terrible.
     
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No one is arguing the narrative of people who were baptized in the Bible.
    Is there a prescriptive requirement that only someone who confesses salvation can be baptized? Do any of the verses you quoted make that prescription? You imply this, but is it specifically prescriptive?
    I say that we must extend grace in this matter. If a person exhibits genuine salvation and was genuinely baptized, even as an infant, that person has fulfilled the ordinance of our King. I would admit that person into membership in the local church without hesitation.
     
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  19. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    thats nonsense. if you take it that way then every time i go swimming im being Baptised, as i'm immersed in water.
     
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  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Well, to my knowledge, the thief on the cross was never baptized. He entered heaven because God said he could come.
     
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