Open Challenge

adisciplinedlearner...

How can you reconcile your view with the book of Acts and Cornelious?

The scripture says....

How clear does God have to make it?

These people have clearly been indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they are regenerated and are now christians....yet they have not been water baptised yet.

 

GE:
"What must happen with the heart and mind of a person BEFORE they are not merely willing to be baptized but convinced they should be baptized?"

If that thing you are presupposing happened in all truth, would it be conditional the person must be further willing to be baptised or convinced he should be baptised also? In other words, is baptism the unconditional fruit of being reborn; or is the person not baptised yet, not reborn yet?— which is the logic of your argumentation.


Re:
“Can anyone be an unbeliever in the gospel and unrepentant of their sins and yet willing submit to baptism?”

Why ask the question? Rather ask, Can anyone be a believer in the gospel and repentant of his sins and yet has not submitted to water-baptism?

One repentant toward sin as the Biblical order is, always "repents and believes" the gospel.

‘The Biblical order’ under the apostles was, “repent and believe AND be baptised’. ‘Water’, ‘in water’ or, ‘with water’, is nowhere added. Because neither salvation nor faith requires one be baptized with water; only that he be baptized with the Holy Spirit and that means and requires and demands a person has been saved in truth once for all.

 

GE:
Yes, Salvation is a one time act of GOD'S through Christ, in Christ "to us-ward". Obedience is an all-time progressive act of GOD'S-- through a SAVED man-- in a saved and BEING saved (or 'sanctified') man. Holiness is of the Lord; all salvation is of the Lord. Christ is our only salvation and justification, our only righteousness and sanctification unto our glorification in the last day of His Coming and of our resurrection from the dead.

Repentance is a golden thread braided from end to end in the string of God's saving mercies.

 

GE:
So, your position amounts to the refutation or denial of my position which is, neither salvation nor faith requires one be baptized with water; only that he be baptized with the Holy Spirit and that means and requires and demands a person has been saved in truth once for all?

Fine; then that settles it, and makes the consequences of your position, quite clear, Dr Walter.

As Alive in Christ has said,
"Quote:
"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized, seeing as they have recieved the Holy Spirit just as we have"
.....
These people have clearly been indwelt by the Holy Spirit, they are regenerated and are now christians....yet they have not been water baptised yet. "

 

GE:
I'm afraid your logic surpasses my intellect so far I cannot make head or tail of what you say, Dr Walter.

Re: your first paragraph, I fully endorse (if I may)!

Re: your last paragraph, I was referring to Galatians; you talk about water baptism?

Besides: water-baptism is "a church ordinance", but, "given to the church by Christ"--- now does that mean water-baptism is a Church ordinance or a 'Christ-ordinance', 'given' by the Church, or 'given' by Christ? Water-baptism is "not an Apostolic ordinance" but yet it was "given to the church by Christ"?

It's futile attempt to try to grasp..... sorry. See why I say I rather would simply have to live with it. Which I do try to do I think for whatever it may be worth: It may save a lot of fruitless talk.

PS:

SORRY, WRONG THREAD! Too many threads at once ....

 

AMEN:thumbs:

 

GE:

The ‘wind’ of the Holy Spirit blows where it wills, and no man can contain or condition its course or manifestation.

Dr Walter puts baptism with the Holy Spirit in his little box which he opens when he likes. He says the rebirth is no baptism with the Holy Spirit.

But no regeneration, no 'rebirth', ever --- before and after Pentecost --- happened otherwise than by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And there always were OTHER baptisms with the Holy Spirit besides the baptism with the Holy Spirit that may be identified as the rebirth or spiritual regeneration or new heart or new man whichever way described in words ever unable to tell exactly the reality of being baptised by the Holy Spirit or of being reborn.

What made Pentecost the special and specific instance of the baptism with the Holy Spirit was its SIGNIFICANCE AS PROPHETIC FULFILLMENT and APOSTOLIC-SPECIFIC ENDOWMENT with power and authority, ONCE, in the history of the Church of ALL TIME. For which purpose water-baptism was given an EXCLUSIVE Apostolic SIGN of power and authority.