Origianal Sin?

I think it was J.B. Lightfoot who said it would be more proper to refer to children who die in infancy as "safe" rather than "saved". Can't recall for sure, been too long...

 

Old Regular hit on this " the knowledge of Good and Evil" making the difference between sin and innocence. In Genesis, the first sin was committed as follows:

All quotes from NASB 95
Genesis 2

16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;

17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Here is the command being issued, DO NOT DO THIS.

Next we have the sin being committed:

Genesis 3

4The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

After Eve's creation , they were naked but not ashamed, what changed here?

Still in chapter 3

10He said, "I heard the sound of You in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid myself."

11And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?"

12 The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."

13Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

Who told them they were naked, well no one did. Their innocence was gone, so nakedness took a whole new meaning via the effect of the "knowledge of good and evil".

A baby has no such knowledge and has taken no action. The penalty of Adams' sin is death. That being we will all eventually die a mortal death. And like previously posted, each man and woman is accountable for their own sins and will be judged accordingly.

But this is just my take on it.

 

Hi all,

The first question was,

This question of original sin came up in a thread on another board I post on. If it's ok I'll use a portion of my answers from three posts to another poster on that board to answer the original(pardon the pun)question here.


Hi (poster),

Poster said,
"If she(Mary)was highly favored by God, (luke 1:28) and if the curse of sin is passed on to all, how could the Holy Spirit come upon her?"

Kab responded,
The short answer is the same way the Holy Spirit comes upon us when we believe God. We're still sinners, but now we're sinners with a Savior with all the advantages that go along with that.

Poster said,
"So was the Holy Spirit's role of impregnating Mary, what allowed Jesus to be born without sin?"

Kab responded,
If I'm reading your question right, remember we're not born with sin, we're born with a sinful nature which means we have the propensity to sin(left to our own we will sin). Babies sin after they are born, but start out not knowing they are sinning. There comes a time of accountability in a child's life when God knows they have become aware of their sin. There is no "age of accountabilibty" as many religions teach. Only God knows when we become aware of our sin and and when we are aware of the solution to it.

Remember we're not born with sin, we're born with a sinful nature which means we have the propensity to sin(left to our own we will sin)."

Being sons of Adam we are born with a sin nature. We didn't inherit his sin, but we did inherit that sin nature from Adam.
In Psalm 51:5 David speaking of his sin says,
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Ephesians 2:3 says,
"...and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

As we grow we don't have to be taught to lie, steal, etc...that comes naturally, because we are born with sinful natures as our parents were. This is why we didn't inherit Adam's sin, but we did inherit Adam's sin nature. As I said before, we are responsible for our own personal sin.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."-Romans 5:19

The last part of that verse "...so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." refers to Christ who is often referred to as the new Adam or last Adam.

"And so it is written, 'The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."-1 Corinthians 15:45

Look at verse 47,
"The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

That "second man" is our saviour from "the first man",
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."-1 Corinthians 15:22''

...and so for all who believe God?
"Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference."-Romans 3:22

Poster asked,
"If we inherit Adams sin nature, then when we come to salvation, we inherit Christ sinless nature?"

Kab responded,
That's one way of putting it. Spiritually we inherit Christ's nature, but until we are free of these corruptible bodies we will always be at odds with that old nature trying to creep into our Spiritual lives.
This is why Jude said what he did in verses 24-25 of Jude:

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling..."
Speaking of Jesus Christ

"...and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy..."
Obviously we cannot keep ourselves physically faultless, but Christ will keep us Spiritually faultless.

"...To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."
Christ is the only one able to do this.

ybiC,
Kab

 

Each new life is a clean slate. But has the ability to sin and will die a mortal death thanks to Adam. Condemnation of sin is on an individual basis based on what each person has done. Through Christ we have an Advocate with God to be forgiven.

People tend to ignore key words. Death is our curse from Adam, eternal life is the gift from Christ. "sin entered the world" but each person comes to or denies it on their own.

I disagree with original sin meaning that everyone is sinful from birth. An inherited sin is more accurate or sin nature.

 

Hi! I'm new, and this is my first post! So peace and love to all of you! but I have a couple of questions/comments.

Romans 5:
18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
(NASB biblegateway)

I am having a hard time reading this verse as 'sin nature'. Adam's sin wasn't just mortal or 'sin nature' for all men, but 'Condemnation'.

 

No need to reinvent the wheel.

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc06.html

 

Tater77 said,

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

I'm amazed at the number of responses here that people are born basically good except they have a mortal body. Man was put under a curse for sin after the Fall; everyone is born separated from God and spiritually dead at birth. What more devastating consequence could there be?

To minimize this also minimizes what Christ did for us on the cross.

 

Big difference between being "good" (which I haven't seen as an argument here) and not guilty.

The curse was death...and if babies are separated at birth, if they die in that state they spend eternity in Hell without faith. We are guilty of our own sin...not Adam's.

How so? Christ died once for all.

 

Romans 5:
18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
(NASB biblegateway)

Condemnation seems to be the word I am having trouble with in this verse I guess. Every other time I see the word condemnation in the Bible it does not seem to merely suggest a 'physical' or 'mortal' death.

We were also made sinners. That's another word I am having trouble with in this verse. Sinners will be cut off and destroyed. I am having a hard time reconciling this word to simply mean 'sinful nature'.

Obviously we have a couple of verses such as the one in Revelations:
20:13 ... and each person was judged according to what he had done. (NIV)

So it may be taken that it is not Adam's sin we will be judged on, but on our own.

"the Bible teaches that we are to be judged on the basis of our deeds committed 'in the body'"

But there are also tons of verses that talk about the 'thoughts' of our heart.
Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (NIV)

So although I may agree with:
"Have those who die in infancy committed such sins in the body? We believe not."

I can claim nothing about the heart of any infant... which may seem like an odd thing to say.

As for Marcia's claim that it minimizes what Christ did, I've heard that argument before.
As Jesus is the 'only' way to heaven, and 'no one' comes to the father except through him, and that it is through faith and believing that salvation comes, then to claim that a baby has a free ticket somehow minimizes his crucifiction.

Which then further arguments in this realm lead to:
Why be against abortion? as those children are now in heaven.
All children should be put to death? instead of being at risk to not go to heaven?

Sick, but I've heard that debated.

 

Is a sin nature less offensive to God than one sin that is committed conscioiusly? I don't see that there is much difference. A sin nature means we are born with a sin tainted nature. We may not be guilty of Adam's specific sin, but his sin has caused us to be born under condemnation, and separated from God.

I'd like to know the difference in God's eyes between a sin nature and sinning. Are we or are we not born separated from God?