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Featured OSAS1, OSAS2, or OSAS3

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by drfuss, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I am glad to see we agree on this DHK. I agree that we are kept, we do not persevere.

    Perseverance is works salvation. If you are faithful, you believe yourself saved, if you go out in sin, you doubt your salvation. So, they only way you can be sure you are saved is if YOU persevere. This is works salvation, you believe you are saved if you are faithful and obedient.

    Preservation or Perseverance determines how you interpret scripture. For instance, most folks believe only the good soil was saved in the parable of the sower. I disagree. The "way side" was lost. It never took root, it never sprang up, which are signs of life. However, the stoney ground and the seed sowed among thorns did take root and spring up. However, these did not persevere to bring forth fruit. Jesus was not saying they were lost, he said they did not persevere and bring forth fruit. The seed sowed on the good soil not only sprang up (life), but produced fruit.

    Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    This is the way side. The seed that fell here never took root, the devil came and took it out of these person's hearts. It never sprang up, there was no life. This is a lost person. Notice Jesus very carefully points that out.

    Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    This is the rocky ground, but this is speaking of a saved person. They believed. They sprang up, they had life. But they did not persevere and bring forth fruit, which is going out and proclaiming the gospel, producing new believers. The fruit of a believer is another believer.

    Luke 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

    This is the thorny ground. Jesus did not say they were lost, he said they bring forth no fruit to perfection.

    Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

    If you believe in perseverance, you will have a completely different interpretation of this parable than if you believe preservation. A person who believes in perseverance will interpret the stoney ground and the thorny ground to be lost, because they did not persevere. That is not what this scripture says. It says they "believed", it says they sprang up, which is life.

    If you believe in preservation, you see the thorny ground and stoney ground is saved, however they do not bring forth fruit. These are folks who accept Jesus and get baptized, and even go out and tell friends and neighbors about Jesus for awhile. But when they are ridiculed for their faith they give up and cease to witness. They are saved, but they bring forth no fruit. The thorny ground are those who trust Christ and are saved, but they get caught up in the distractions of the world. Instead of coming to church or knocking on doors, they watch TV, or play golf or a thousand other distractions. They are saved, but they bring forth no fruit.

    The good soil are those who continue as disciples and serve the Lord. They come to church and invite others. They continue to tell friends and neighbors about the Lord, they knock on doors or hand out tracts. Through patient perseverance they bring forth much fruit.

    We are saved because we are preserved and kept by Jesus. We bring forth fruit by persevering. You cannot get the two confused, but many do.
     
    #41 Winman, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  2. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    Okay, it appears you believe in OSAS2 and/or OSAS4. I think the practical difference between these two is in terminology. Any thoughts on why you don't believe in OSAS1 and OSAS3?
     
    #42 drfuss, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  3. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I agree with Steaver, I don't like someone to tell me what I believe. I read the scriptures and ask God to show me the true interpretation. I don't like or need someone else to tell me what to believe, I think for myself.
     
  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    As far as your OSAS1, I honestly have not studied TULIP to comment with a good understanding of the doctrine, I probably should take the time to do this some day.

    As far as OSAS3, just read my signature line. I find it an immpossibility for one. Personally speaking, I have been at the bottom of the deep valley many times and I just couldn't cause myself to disbelieve in Jesus Christ, even when I believed He just could not care what I was going through.

    Try it sometime! Try to stop believing and see how you make out.
     
  5. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    At least a cal and Non cal can agree on OSAS!
     
  6. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    I was not telling him what to believe; I was asking him to clarify what he believes and does not believe, since he started a thread on how to underwstand OSAS.

    I don't like others to tell me what to believe either, such as to believe in OSAS. That is why I no longer participate in debates on OSAS or eternal security.
     
    #46 drfuss, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  7. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    Thank you.
     
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